What is Shirk? Its much worse than you think.

[Bigmo]

Polytheism v Monotheism


Polytheism believes in a metadivine realm, an existince prior to the existence of the gods(water, smoke, fire, fate etc) that the gods were under the domain of and under the decree of and under the dependence of. This is the supreme and ultimate realm and it transcends the deities who are under the laws and power of this metadivine realm. So the gods are limited, there is no absolute divine will and authority. They are not all knowing and all wise since this medadivine realm which is often mysterious and all too powerfull for the gods. The gods can also be limited by the activities of other gods, spirits or natural forces.

Polytheism relies on mytholgy, the stories of the gods. The gods have a begining where they are born and can die and even re-born. Theogony(the stories of the birth of the gods) is a common concept among paganism. Usually the metadivine realm is where the gods are born or emerge and usually this is where all life forms and natural existence came into existence.

Polytheism therefore has a fluid boundary between the divine, human and natural world since they all emerge from the same primordial(before existence) material, the metadivine realm that was in existence before everything. The gods are like exaggerated human beings. Therefore gods and nature are very similar and intertwine with one another such as the god of fire or the god of fertility or war or the god of the ocean or moon etc. So not much difference between the worshiping of god or the worshiping of nature. Hence gods can form or become humans and vice versa since there is a commonality between the gods and nature and humans. Often after death certain humans can become gods and some gods can becomee humans or spirits and so on. There is a fluid relationship between them.

Divine power according to paganism is conceived on material things usually the stuff the primordial existence is made of. Power can thus be attained by manipulating these material things connected to the metadivine realm such as fire, smoke, water etc. These divine powers can be attained through magic or rituals and humans can tap into these divine powers. This power can then be used to circumvent the gods and force them to do what they otherwise wouldn't do. So being able to manipulate these natural or material forces can influence the behavior of the gods since the gods themselves are under the domain of these primordial forces. These powers of manipulation can also protect humans from the gods and the evil spirits etc. Its the metadivine realm that contains the ultimate power and the gods can be used as a medium in some cases to tap into the metadivine realm. Blood, flesh and water and all this material forces that have some connection with the metadivine realm can be used and manipulated to influence the gods and seek protection from harm.

Pagan rituals and festivals often are reenactments of the death or birth of the gods or battles and major events in the life of the gods. This will bring about the powers of the gods and can be used to continue the birth and fertility of life and bring about victories in battles and so on. These reenactments were a way to continue the divine powers and favors. Since the primordial forces(metadivine realm) is what everything, including the gods, emerge from, the primordial forces are resposnsible for all good and bad. So there are good gods and evil gods that often battle one another and interact with one another. Death and disease are confined to these evil spirits who are like sibblings of the good gods. Humans can only rely on magic and rituals to reach the powers of the metadivine to protect them against these evil gods and spirits. Once again the need to circumvent these gods and spirits by connecting with the metadivine where all powers finally rests.

As far as montheism, well you know that better than I do.

That God is absolute, all knowing, a force of only good, and is supreme over all others and things and is complete distinct from nature and eternal and was always is. Everything fall under His will and nature is an expression of His will and there is no blurring between God, nature and man. God is completely distinct yet in full command.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...5828637989025#

A brilliant lecture video from Yale.

http://www.adf.org/articles/cosmolog...-theology.html

Norse creation story

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_OBq...eature=related

Hinduism creation story

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTy49JlgJZE

Ancient Egyptian creation story

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNxZqINCyj4

Ancient Greek creation story

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75kDb...eature=related

The Incas creation story

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayR4z...eature=related

Germanic creation story


All these shirk creation stories gives us a theological foundation that Shrik is built upon. They all follow this common theme. So we can see that many Muslim understanding of shirk is not accurate. Shrik is not about tawassul and praying to saints. Shrik is less about elevating humans than it is about demoting God. Shrik is an act of mockery of God and downplaying and even denying His role in creation and His dominion over the universe. This is why shirk is unforgiveable since its an act od rebelion and mcokery of God and really nothing else. No mushrik will believe God has dominian over the universe and existence. God in shirk is under the same limitations as anyone of us. He can be circumvented and challenged. He can be frustrated in His will. Shirk is a major theological departure from the theology of the Quran. They are in fact oppossite extremes of one another.

Kitaab At-Tawheed, Chapter: 39

Allah's Words: " They Know the Favours of Allah,
Then They Deny Them"


" They know the favours of Allah, then they deny them: And most of them are disbelievers" (Qur'an 16:83)

In this verse, Allah , Most Glorified, Most High, rejects all those who recognize in their hearts that all blessings are from Allah , and yet in spite of this, they deny them by their evil deeds, worshipping other than Him and by their words, saying: "We achieved these blessings from Allah , through the intercession of our idols," or they say: "It is our inheritance from our fathers and our grandfathers." And Allah , Most High, informs us also that all those who do so are disbelievers in Allah and deniers of His Blessings.

Benefits Derived From This Verse


1. That even the pagans believed in Tawheed Ar-Ruboobiyyah (i.e. that Allah is the One Rabb, Creator and Sustainer of the Universe).

2. That gratitude to Allah is not complete unless it is expressed in belief, word and deed.

3. That using the blessings of Allah for the purpose of disobedience to Him is to deny them.

http://www.islamicweb.com/beliefs/cr...T1-chap-39.htm

This is simply not true. The pagans by definition do not believe in the so called tawheed al ruboobiya. There are verses in the Quran that tell us when the pagans were asked who was the creator they will say God and that when they were asked who is the sustainer they will say God. But they continue in their shirk. This is the same as asking a Hindu who is the creator he wil also say God but they understand God differently than how the Quran understands God. Many also may not believe in the pagan dieties but simply follow because of tradition or get defensive. This is becaue pagans have ridiculous creation stories that look more like a comical drama and thus they often get defensive. But to assume that because of such verses that the pagans Arab theology believed in tawheed al ruboobiya but simply practiced tawassul is signalling a real lack of understanding of what shirk is.

Zoroastrian (Persian paganism) Creation Story

This story is taken from the Book of Creation, the Bundahishn, which dates from the 6th century AD.




In the beginning, there was nothing in the world except Ahura Mazda, the Wise Lord, who lived in the Endless Light. And the Evil Spirit, Ahriman, who lived in the Absolute Darkness. Between them lay only emptiness.



One day, Ahura Mazda decided to make different creations. First He shaped the sky made of metal, shinning and bright. Second, He made the pure water. Third, the Wise Lord created the Earth, flat and round with no mountains and valleys. Fourth, He made the plants, moist and sweet with no bark or thorn. Fifth, he created the animals, big and small. Then he created the First Man, Gayomard, bright, tall, and handsome. And lastly, he created Fire and distributed it within the whole creation. The Wise Lord ordered Fire to serve the mankind in preparing food and overcoming cold.




The Evil Spirit peeked out of his dark world to see the Wise Lord’s beautiful creations. The Wise Lord called him and said, "Evil Spirit! Aid my creatures and give them praise so that you will be immortal."

The Evil Spirit snarled, "Why should I aid your creatures? Why should I praise them? I am more powerful! I will destroy you and your creatures for ever and ever." Then he crawled back to his dark side to shape demons, witches, and monsters to attack the Endless Light.




The Wise Lord was All-knowing. He knew the Evil Spirit was making demons to destroy His good creations, and He also knew there would be a great battle with the Dark. So the Wise Lord fashioned six Spirits-the Holy Immortals- to guard His creations against the Endless Dark. The Wise Lord shaped the Holy Immortals from His own soul, each having His own nature.




The first Holy Spirit was Khashathra, the Righteous Power, who became the guardian of the sky. Then the Wise Lord created Haurvatat, the Peace and Perfection. She became the protector of waters. Next was Spenta Armaiti, the Holy Devotion. She guarded the Earth. The other Holy Spirit, Ameretat, the Immortality, became the protector of plants. Vohu Manah, the Good Mind, was the fifth Holy Spirit. He chose to protect the animals. And Asha Vahishta, the Justice, became the guardian of Fire. Lastly, the Wise Lord made His own Holy Spirit the protector of the mankind.





Ahriman saw the Wise Lord’s Holy Immortals and was enraged. He cried, "Ahura Mazda! I will destroy you and all your creations. You will never be victorious!"

So, he and his demons attacked the God’s creations one by one.

They tried to destroy the water but they could only bring bitterness to it. They tried to destroy the Earth but they could only put mountains and valleys. They tried to wither the plants but the plants only grew horns.



The Evil Spirit and his demons brought sadness against happiness, pain against pleasure, pollution against purification and death against life. They attacked Gayomard, the First man, and gave him sickness and death.


The Evil Spirit thought he had destroyed the mankind and became victorious against the Light! But he was ignorant and foolish.

When Gayomard, the First Man, died from his bones grew a rhubarb plant. After forty years, a man and a woman, Mashya and Mashyana, grew out of the rhubarb plant. Mashya and Mashyana promised the Wise Lord that their children would help Him in His battle with Ahriman. Mashyana then gave birth to fifteen twins and every pair scattered around the world and became a race.

Then each person followed the good thoughts, good deeds, and good words. Each became the follower of the Wise Lord in His battle with the Evil Spirit.

http://www.zoroastriankids.com/creation.html

[Bigmo]

An African creation story

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdrvoXIH-uc

Some various African creation stories. The first one (Bantu tribe) is presented in the video I posted.

Boshongo(Bantu Tribe):

In the beginning there was only darkness, water, and the great god Bumba. One day Bumba, in pain from a stomach ache, vomited up the sun. The sun dried up some of the water, leaving land. Still in pain, Bumba vomited up the moon, the stars, and then some animals: the leopard, the crocodile, the turtle, and, finally, some men, one of whom, Yoko Lima was white like Bumba.
Dogon:

At the beginning of time, Amma (a supreme god who lived in the celestial regions and was the origin of all creation) created the Earth and immediately joined with it. But the Earth's clitoris opposed the male penis. Amma destroyed it, circumcising his wife, and they had a child, Ogo, and the twins, the Nommo. Ogo had no partner and was barren, so he introduced disorder into the world by committing incest with his mother, Earth. The first menstrual blood came from this union, as well as Yeban and Andumbulu, the spirits of the underworld.
Amma created the stars by throwing pellets of earth into space. He created the sun and moon by modelling two white earthenware bowls, one encircled with red copper, the other with white copper. Black people were born under the sun and white people under the moon. (The latter paragraph is quoted in L.V.Thomas, Les Religions de L'Afrique noire, Paris, 1969)

Efik(Central Nigeria):

The creator, Abassi, created two humans and then decided to not allow them to live on earth. His wife, Atai, persuaded him to let them do so. In order to control the humans, Abassi insisted that they eat all their meals with him, thereby keeping them from growing or hunting food. He also forbade them to procreate. Soon, though, the woman began growing food in the earth, and they stopped showing up to eat with Abassi. Then the man joined his wife in the fields, and before long there were children also. Abassi blamed his wife for the way things had turned out, but she told him she would handle it. She sent to earth death and discord to keep the people in their place.

Ekoi(South Nigeria):
In the beginning there were two gods, Obassi Osaw and Obassi Nsi. The two gods created everything together. Then Obassi Osaw decided to live in the sky and Obassi Nsi decided to live on the earth. The god in the sky gives light and moisture, but also brings drought and storms. The god of the earth nurtures, and takes the people back to him when they die. One day long ago Obassi Osaw made a man and a woman, and placed them upon the earth. They knew nothing so Obassi Nsi taught them about planting and hunting to get food.

Ethiopia:
Wak was the creator god who lived in the clouds. He kept the vault of the heavens at a distance from the earth and covered it with stars. He was a benefactor and did not punish. When the earth was flat Wak asked man to make his own coffin, and when man did this Wak shut him up in it and pushed it into the ground. For seven years he made fire rain down and the mountains were formed. Then Wak unearthed the coffin and man sprang forth, alive. Man tired of living alone, so Wak took some of his blood, and after four days, the blood became a woman whom the man married. They had 30 children, but the man was ashamed of having so many so he hid 15 of them. Wak then made those hidden children into animals and demons.

Fans(Bantu):
In the beginning there was nothing but Nzame. This god is really three: Nzame, Mebere, and Nkwa. It was the Nzame part of the god that created the universe and the earth, and brought life to it. Whle the three parts of Nzame were admiring this creation, it was decided to create a ruler for the earth. So was created the elephant, the leopard, and the monkey, but it was decided that something better had to be created. Between the three of them they made a new creature in their image, and called him Fam (power), and told him to rule the earth. Before long, Fam grew arrogant, he mistreated the animals and stopped worshipping Nzame. Nzame, angered, brought forth thunder and lightning and destroyed everything that was, except Fam, who had been promised immortality. Nzame, in his three aspects, decided to renew the earth and try again. He applied a new layer of earth to the planet, and a tree grew upon it. The tree dropped seeds which grew into more trees. Leaves that dropped from them into the water became fish, those that dropped on land became animals. The old parched earth still lies below this new one, and if one digs deep enough it can be found in the form of coal. Nzame made a new man, one who would know death, and called him Sekume. Sekume fashioned a woman, Mbongwe, from a tree. These people were made with both Gnoul (body) and Nissim (soul). Nissim gives life to Gnoul. When Gnoul dies, Nissim lives on. They produced many children and prospered.

Wahungwe(Zimbabwe):
Maori created the first man, Mwuetsi, who became the moon. Maori gave him a ngona horn filled with ngona oil and told him he would live at the bottom of the waters. Mwuetsi objected and said he wished to live on the land. Maori reluctantly agreed, but said Mwuetsi would give up immortality if he did. After a while Mwuetsi complained of loneliness, so Maori sent him a woman, Massassi (the morning star), to keep him company for two years. Each night they slept on opposite sides of a campfire, until one night Mwuetsi jumped over the flame and touched Massassi with a finger he had moistened with the ngona oil. In the moning Massassi was huge, and soon gave birth to plants and trees until the whole earth was covered by them. At the end of two years Maori took Massassi away. Mwuetsi wept for eight years, at which time Maori sent him another woman, Morongo (the evening star), saying that she could stay for two years. On the first night Mwuetsi touched her with his oiled finger, but she said she was different than Massassi, and that they would have to oil their loins and have intercourse. This they did, this night, and every night thereafter. Every morning Morongo gave birth to the animals of creation. Then she gave birth to human boys and girls, who became full-grown by that very same evening. Maori voiced his disleasure with a fierce storm, and told Mwuetsi he was hastening his death with all this procreation. Morongo, ever the temptress, instructed Mwuetsi to build a door to their habitat so that Maori could not see what they were doing. He did this, and again they slept together. Now in the morning Morongo gave birth to violent animals; snakes, scorpions, lions, etc. One night Morongo told Mwuetsi to have intercourse with his daughters, which he did, thereby fathering the human race.

Yoruba:
In the beginning was only the sky above, water and marshland below. The chief god Olorun ruled the sky, and the goddess Olokun ruled what was below. Obatala, another god, reflected upon this situation, then went to Olorun for permission to create dry land for all kinds of living creatures to inhabit. He was given permission, so he sought advice from Orunmila, oldest son of Olorun and the god of prophecy. He was told he would need a gold chain long enough to reach below, a snail's shell filled with sand, a white hen, a black cat, and a palm nut, all of which he was to carry in a bag. All the gods contributed what gold they had, and Orunmila supplied the articles for the bag. When all was ready, Obatala hung the chain from a corner of the sky, placed the bag over his shoulder, and started the downward climb. When he reached the end of the chain he saw he still had some distance to go. From above he heard Orunmila instruct him to pour the sand from the snail's shell, and to immediately release the white hen. He did as he was told, whereupon the hen landing on the sand began scratching and scattering it about. Wherever the sand landed it formed dry land, the bigger piles becoming hills and the smaller piles valleys. Obatala jumped to a hill and named the place Ife. The dry land now extended as far as he could see. He dug a hole, planted the palm nut, and saw it grow to maturity in a flash. The mature palm tree dropped more palm nuts on the ground, each of which grew immediately to maturity and repeated the process. Obatala settled down with the cat for company. Many months passed, and he grew bored with his routine. He decided to create beings like himself to keep him company. He dug into the sand and soon found clay with which to mold figures like himself and started on his task, but he soon grew tired and decided to take a break. He made wine from a nearby palm tree, and drank bowl after bowl. Not realizing he was drunk, Obatala returned to his task of fashioning the new beings; because of his condition he fashioned many imperfect figures. Without realizing this, he called out to Olorun to breathe life into his creatures. The next day he realized what he had done and swore never to drink again, and to take care of those who were deformed, thus becoming Protector of the Deformed. The new people built huts as Obatala had done and soon Ife prospered and became a city. All the other gods were happy with what Obatala had done, and visited the land often, except for Olokun, the ruler of all below the sky.

Zimbabwe:
Modimo was the creator. He distributed good things, appeared in the east and belonged to the element water. At the same time he was a destroyer, a terrifying creature responsible for drought, hail, cyclones and earthquakes. When these things happened he appeared in the west and was part of the element fire. Modimo was also sky and light, earth and root. He was unique and singular. He had no ancestors, no past or future. He pervaded the whole of creation. His name was taboo and could be spoken only by priests and seers.



Zulu Creation story

http://www.bigmyth.com/myths/english/2_zulu_full.htm



I have now presnted evidence from all continents of the Earth. I have shown how every pagan tradition known has never believed in God being the sole creator and sustainer. This talk that the pagans of Mecca used to believe in tawheed al ubodiyya or whatever is simply incorrect. The notion that a person can believe that there is creator and sutainer and yet still be mushrik is impossible and never happened in the history of mankind.

Someone said:

Only believing in the first two categories of Tawheed without implementing Tawheed-al-Ibaadah is useless. The Qur’an gives the examples of ‘Mushrikeens’ (idolaters) of the Prophet’s time who confirmed the first two aspects of Tawheed. It is mentioned in the Qur’an:

"Say: ‘Who is it that Sustains you (in life) From the sky and from the earth? Or who is it that Has power over hearing And sight? And who Is it that brings out The living from the dead And the dead from the living? And who is it that Rules and regulates all affairs?’ They will soon say, ‘Allah’. Say, ‘Will you not then Show piety (to Him)?’ " [Al-Qur’an 10:31]

A similar example is repeated in Surah Zukhruf of the Glorious Qur’an:

"If thou ask them, Who Created them, they will Certainly say, ‘Allah’: how Then are they deluded Away (from the Truth)?" [Al-Qur’an 43:87]

The pagan Meccans knew that Allah (swt) was their Creator, Sustainer, Lord and Master. Yet they were not Muslims because they also worshipped other gods besides Allah. Allah (swt) categorized them as ‘Kuffaar’ (disbelievers) and ‘Mushrikeen’ (idol worshippers and those who associate partners with God).

"And most of them Believe not in Allah Without associating (others As partners) with Him!" [Al-Qur’an 12:106]

Thus ‘Tawheed al-Ibaadah’ i.e. maintaining the unity of worship is the most important aspect of Tawheed. Allah (swt) alone deserves worship and He alone can grant benefit to man for his worship

http://afifichestclinic.blogspot.com...of-god-in.html




This is not correct. Not by a long shot. The pagans of Mecca never believed any such thing. The verses quoted tells us that some of them used to get defensive and though they knew their creation stories were silly, they would not abandon them because of ancestorial. To this day Hindus will tell you thay are monotheist. But they continue to worship their deities and make idols on their behalf.

Hud 11:87] They said, "O Shuaib! Does your prayer command you that we forsake the deities of our forefathers or that we may not do as we wish with our own property? Yes indeed - only you are very intelligent, most righteous *."

Hud 11:62] They said, "O Saleh! You seemed very promising among us, before this - What! You forbid us from worshipping the deities of our forefathers? And indeed we have fallen into a deeply intriguing doubt concerning what you call us to."

Hud 11:109] So O listener (followers of this Prophet), do not fall into doubt by what these disbelievers worship; they only worship just as their forefathers worshipped before; and indeed we shall pay them their due in full, undiminished.

Chapter 2 Surah Baqarah verse 170-171: When it is said to them, “Follow the Commands that Allah has sent down”, they reply, “We will follow only what we found our forefathers practicing.” Well, will they go on following their forefathers even though they did not use common sense and did not find the Right Way!

Chapter 7 Surah Al Aaraf verse173-174: This We did lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection, “We were unaware of this thing.” Or lest you should say, “Our forefathers have taken false gods before us and we were born after them to their descendants. Do You, then, punish us for the sin that was committed by the wrong-doers?” Behold, this is how We make Our Signs clear, so that these people may return to Us.

Chapter 21 Surah Anbiyaa verse 52-54: Recall to mind the occasion when Ibrahim said to his father and his people, “What are these images to which you are so devoted?” They replied, “We found our forefathers worshipping them.” Ibrahim said, “You have gone astray and so had your forefathers manifestly deviated from the Right Way.”

Chapter 26 Surah Shuaraa verse 69-82: And tell them the story of Ibrahim, when he asked his father and his people: “What are these things that you worship?” They answered, “These are idols which we worship and we serve them devotedly.” Ibrahim asked, “Do they hear you when you call on them? Or do they bring any good or harm to you?” They replied, “No, but we have found our elders doing the same.” At this, Ibrahim said, “Have you ever seen with open eyes the things which you and your elders have been worshipping? They are all enemies to me, except the One Lord of the Worlds, Who created me, then He it is Who guides me, Who gives me food and drink, and Who gives me health when I am ill, Who will cause me to die and then will give me life again, and of Whom I expect that He will forgive me my errors on the Day of Judgment.”

Chapter 31 Surah Luqman verse 21: And when it is said to them, “Follow what Allah has sent down”, they say, “We shall only follow that upon which we found our forefathers.” What! Will they still be following them even if Shaitaan had been calling them to the raging Fire?

Chapter 34 Surah Saba verse 43: When Our clear Revelations are recited to these people, they say, “This person only wants to turn you away from those deities whom your forefathers have been worshipping.”

Chapter 43 Surah Zukhruf verse 22-25: Nay! But they say, “We found our forefathers on a way and we are only walking in their footsteps.” Even so, whenever before you We sent a warner to a habitation, its people of means said, “We have found our forefathers on a way and we are only following in their footsteps.” Every Prophet asked them, “Will you still go on following the same old way even if I guide you to a more right way than that you found your forefathers following?” They replied, “We disbelieve the religion with which you have been sent.” Consequently, We took vengeance on them. Just consider what was the end of those who denied.

This is all defensive arguments because anyone who looks at these creation stories knows full well no sane mind can believe such stories. But ancestorial pride and arrogance prevented them from abandoning their ways.

[Bigmo]

Hardline Islamists destroy Muslim religious shrines in Timbuktu

Jul 1, 2012



BAMAKO // Hardline Islamists occupying northern Mali went on the rampage in Timbuktu on Saturday, attacking shrines to Muslim saints and threatening to destroy every religious site in the fabled city.

Armed militants from the fundamentalist Ansar Dine group have already destroyed the ancient tomb of at least one revered Muslim figures on Saturday, just days after UNESCO named the city an endangered world heritage site.

"They have raped Timbuktu today. It is a crime," said a source close to a local imam after the onslaught began early Saturday.

Ansar Dine, one of the Islamist groups which seized control of the vast desert north of Mali in the chaotic aftermath of a March coup in Bamako, said no religious site would be safe in Timbuktu.

"Ansar Dine will today destroy every mausoleum in the city. All of them, without exception," spokesman Sanda Ould Boumama told AFP through an interpreter from the city.

UNESCO put the World Heritage site, a cradle of Islamic learning known as the "City of 333 Saints", on its endangered list on Thursday because of the continued unrest in the north.

The Ansar Dine spokesman suggested Saturday's action was in retaliation for the UNESCO move.

"God is unique. All of this is haram (or forbidden in Islam). We are all Muslims. UNESCO is what?" he said, declaring that Ansar Dine was acting "in the name of God."

Witnesses in Timbuktu said the gangs had destroyed the mausoleum of a saint whose 15th century tomb was already desecrated in May by members of Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Magreb, one of the groups in control in the north.

"As I am speaking to you, Islamists from Ansar Dine have destroyed the mausoleum of saint Sidi Mahmoud," one witness told AFP.

"They are now in the process of destroying the mausoleum (of Sidi Moctar)," said a local journalist. "They have said they will destroy everything."

Islamic and tribal Tuareg groups took advantage of the March 22 military coup in Bamako to push government forces out of northern Mali, an area the size of France and Belgium, including the cities of Gao, Kidal and Timbuktu.

UNESCO, the world's main watchdog over the safety of some of history's greatest treasures and most threatened cultural exhibits, designated Timbuktu a heritage site in 1988.

Beyond its historic mosques, Timbuktu has 16 cemeteries and mausolea, according to the UNESCO website.

It is also home to nearly 100,000 ancient manuscripts, some dating back to the 12th century, preserved in family homes and private libraries under the care of religious scholars.



http://www.thenational.ae/news/world...es-in-timbuktu





All of this senseless violence and destruction of history is because of Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab claim that the pagans of Mecca used to believe that God is the sole sustainer and creator but were mushriks because they practiced tawassul. Ibn Abdul Wahhab claimed this:




The Arab Pagans believed in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah

The belief in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah was never denied by any of the previous nations, except few who denied the existence of Allah, like Fir’awn (Pharaoh), the atheists and communists of this age. The Arab Pagans amongst whom the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) was sent believed in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah. They believed in Allah to the extent that they declared Allah as the Supreme Lord. They acknowledged Him as the Creator of the Universe and considered Him to be the Sovereign and the Provider of sustenance, as is clear from the verses of Soorah al-Muminoon, Allah says: “Say (to the disbelievers): “Whose is the earth and whosoever is therein? If you know!” They will say: “It is Allah” … Say: “Who is the Lord of the seven Heavens and the Lord of the Great Throne?” They will say: “Allah” … Say: “In whose Hands is the sovereignty of everything? And He protects all, while against whom there is no protector, if you know?” They will say: “(All this belongs) to Allah.”[4]

However, the belief in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah did not make them Muslims, because they lacked Tawheed al-Uloohiyyah (Oneness of Allah’s Worship). Even though, the Arab Pagans believed that Allah was their Lord, they did not direct all forms of worship to Him alone. They believed that Angles and pious people had special status with Allah, and thus could intercede with Allah for them. They would say: “We only worship them so that they may bring us closer to Allah.”[5] Calling upon Allah for one’s needs is a great act of worship, and if it is directed towards other than Allah, it leads to Shirk in the worship. Allah revealed: “They worship besides Allah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say: “These are only our intercessors with Allah.”[6]

Thus, Allah declared their act of seeking intercession with Allah as Shirk and termed them as Kafirun and Mushrikeen. He ordered His Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) to proclaim, “I worship not that, which you worship, nor will you worship that which I worship, and I shall not worship that you are worshiping, nor will you worship that which I worship.”[7] These verses of the Noble Qur’aan establish the importance of the Tawheed of worship along with the Tawheed of Lordship.

Essential Points: From the above, we understand that the Arab Pagans, despite their ignorance and arrogance, completely understood the meaning of Ibaadah (worship). They believed that intercession is a form of worship, and did not deny that calling upon pious people amounted to worshiping them. They would call their idols, ‘Aaliha[8]‘(pl. of Ilah lit. meaning, One, who is worshiped). This is in sharp contrast of the belief of the grave-worshipers of today, who make the engraved as intercessors with Allah, and yet do not consider it to be Shirk!!


http://www.*********/tjonline/eng/02/1tawheed.html





This is what ignorance can do. Abdul Wahhab did not do any research on paganism or gave us any facts from pagan traditions but simply interpreted some verses of the Quran. He talked about Tawheed but knew nothing about it. We are told in the Quran to research and seek knowledge. But no such research was done by him. This is now a huge fitna. He was wrong. No pagan tradition in the history of mankind believed in God being the sole creator and sustainer.

[TheEqualizer]

This is what ignorance can do. Abdul Wahhab did not do any research on paganism or gave us any facts from pagan traditions but simply interpreted some verses of the Quran. He talked about Tawheed but knew nothing about it. We are told in the Quran to research and seek knowledge. But no such research was done by him. This is now a huge fitna. He was wrong. No pagan tradition in the history of mankind believed in God being the sole creator and sustainer.

Are you saying

1. AW used some misinterpretation of Quran, to imply that the pagans were only pagans because of their practice of intercession from the dead, while they were otherwise "believers" in every other sense. SO he constricted the boundaries of faith to rest upon intercession ?
2. He then took the counter argument to this thinking to apply it to the muslims of the modern age, by implying the grave worship of todays people, also equates to them being "mushrik" , just as the disbelievrs of Mecca in 7th C then were known as "mushrik"
3. And that this is the root of the calling the "muslims" as "mushrik" based on modern day takfiris ?
4. So the roots of modern day takfir is also misinterpretation and this leads to the destruction of buildings and culture, all due to phony Quran misrepresentation and not researching pagan history ?

[AbdurRaheem2]

Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullah

Brother I can see the point you are making, but at the same time we should ask from Allah not from the creation.

Nearly every one of these pagan creation myths you mention is a 'lost by Chinese whispers' version of the true understanding.

Allah sent knowledge everywhere, that is why awareness of the existence of God is universal,

sadly humankind corrupted that knowledge out of worldliness and by listening to satanic inspiration in most places.


How idolatry began....

Ibn Jarir narrated: "

There were righteous people who lived in the period between Adam and Noah and who had followers who held them as models.

After their death, their friends who used to emulate them said:

'If we make statues of them, it will be more pleasing to us in our worship and will remind us of them.'

So they built statues of them,

after they had died and others came after them, Iblis crept into their minds saying:

'Your forefathers used to worship them, and through that worship they got rain.'

So they worshipped them."

_____________________________

another narration describes....

"Waddan was a righteous man who was loved by his people.

When he died, they withdrew to his grave and were overwhelmed by sadness.

When Iblis saw their sorrow caused by his death, he disguised himself in the form of a man saying:

'I have seen your sorrow because of this man's death;

can I make a statue like him which could be put in your meeting place to make you remember him?'

They said: 'Yes.' So he made the statue like him.

They put it in their meeting place in order to be reminded of him.

When Iblis saw their interest in remembering him, he said:

'Can I build a statue of him in the home of each one of you so that he would be in everyone's house and you could remember him?'

They agreed.

Their children learned about and saw what they were doing.

They also learned about their remembrance of him, until they took him to be a deity and worshipped him instead of Allah....

these narrations (amongst others) demonstrate that historically when people have made images and statues of notable people to commemorate them, through satanic inspiration worship of these images is inspired as the generations pass until the human being is forgotten and just the myth remains.

At first the people worship the statues alongside Allah, like the Pagan Arabs did, but over time they start to give them the attributes of Allah until they have completely mixed up Allah with their false deities in their minds. By this point all vestiges of true religion have disappeared and only some vague religious and moral ideas survive that are corrupted by satanic interference.

[Bigmo]

Are you saying

1. AW used some misinterpretation of Quran, to imply that the pagans were only pagans because of their practice of intercession from the dead, while they were otherwise "believers" in every other sense. SO he constricted the boundaries of faith to rest upon intercession ?
2. He then took the counter argument to this thinking to apply it to the muslims of the modern age, by implying the grave worship of todays people, also equates to them being "mushrik" , just as the disbelievrs of Mecca in 7th C then were known as "mushrik"
3. And that this is the root of the calling the "muslims" as "mushrik" based on modern day takfiris ?
4. So the roots of modern day takfir is also misinterpretation and this leads to the destruction of buildings and culture, all due to phony Quran misrepresentation and not researching pagan history ?

Very much so. There was no real study of what shirk is. No research whatsoever. It also was based on taking certian verses of the Quran and trying to interpret it without knowing the audience the Quran was speaking to (mushriks). To understand the Quran sometimes you need to have an understanding of the audience the Quran was refering to.

"The belief in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah was never denied by any of the previous nations,"

This remark tells me that there was no understanding of what shirk is. This is the complete opposite of the reality.

[Bigmo]

"At first the people worship the statues alongside Allah, like the Pagan Arabs did, but over time they start to give them the attributes of Allah until they have completely mixed up Allah with their false deities in their minds. By this point all vestiges of true religion have disappeared and only some vague religious and moral ideas survive that are corrupted by satanic interference. "

The point here is the understanding of Allah is not how a Muslim understands it. Remember in many creation stories the gods existed before humans. In some cases nature existed before gods. In some cases gods mated with gods. In other cases gods appear and disappear. Its very fluid. It is not always the case that people were venerated until they became idols and gods. Often humans can become gods but gods can also become humans.

"Ekoi(South Nigeria):
In the beginning there were two gods, Obassi Osaw and Obassi Nsi. The two gods created everything together. Then Obassi Osaw decided to live in the sky and Obassi Nsi decided to live on the earth. The god in the sky gives light and moisture, but also brings drought and storms. The god of the earth nurtures, and takes the people back to him when they die. One day long ago Obassi Osaw made a man and a woman, and placed them upon the earth. They knew nothing so Obassi Nsi taught them about planting and hunting to get food."

So its not always the case that humans were venerated till they became gods. Often the gods existed before humans and sometimes nature existed before the gods. Sometimes they all appear together. If you look at the story of the Moses and the Israelites. The Israelites worshiped a calf. There was no need for them to venerate humans first.

The narration that says:

Ibn Jarir narrated: "

There were righteous people who lived in the period between Adam and Noah and who had followers who held them as models.

After their death, their friends who used to emulate them said:

'If we make statues of them, it will be more pleasing to us in our worship and will remind us of them.'

So they built statues of them,

after they had died and others came after them, Iblis crept into their minds saying:

'Your forefathers used to worship them, and through that worship they got rain.'

So they worshipped them."



This is telling us that these people had forefathers who probably were mushriks and so were they and satan just added them more gods. This is common in paganism as gods appear and disappear sometimes former humans becoming gods but not always the case.

[Jadeed]

This is telling us that these people had forefathers who probably were mushriks and so were they and satan just added them more gods. This is common in paganism as gods appear and disappear sometimes former humans becoming gods but not always the case.

This was the beginning of shirk, these people did not have forefathers who were mushriks. Ibn Jarir at-Tabari is narrating an aathar on the beginning of shirk.

...I honestly have no idea how you read it the way you did, it doesn't make any sense.

[Bigmo]

"This was the beginning of shirk, these people did not have forefathers who were mushriks. Ibn Jarir at-Tabari is narrating an aathar on the beginning of shirk.

...I honestly have no idea how you read it the way you did, it doesn't make any sense."

Because Satan told them their forefathers worshiped men.

Iblis crept into their minds saying:

'Your forefathers used to worship them, and through that worship they got rain.'

Plus there is nothing in that narration that says this is how shirk began. Its talking about how early righteous people became gods. The pagans of Mecca even had idols for Jesus and Mary. You will not find too many narration about shirk in Islamic sources as shirk disappeared from the Arabian peninsula.

This hadith was probably used by some to try to equate tawassul with shirk and implying that veneration of humans lead to shirk. There are many ways people start shirk. Often they venerate animals they depend on. Satan can also tell them that their forefathers used to wriship those animals who brought them more produce and meat. After all Hindus take their cow as holy. And many hindus worship animal gods. People can venerate many things. At one time in the Quran Abraham pointed to the sun and moon and said this is my God. But he came to realize that it was who created them who was God.

[Jadeed]

Because Satan told them their forefathers worshiped men.

Right, he told them that so they would become mushriks. Satan likes making people into mushriks.

Um, no, that literally was the beginning of shirk.

From Adam to Nuh (alayhum salaam), there were ten righteous generations upon the correct religion.

Ibn `Abbas said: “There were ten centuries between Adam and Nuh. They were all on Islam. Then differences among people took place. They worshipped idols and rivals. So Allah sent extensive evidence and irrefutable proof with His Messengers.”

Bolding is mine. As said, this was the beginning of shirk.

All the idols which were worshipped by the people of Noah were worshipped by the Arabs later on. As for the idol Wadd, it was worshipped by the tribe of Kalb at Daumat-al-Jandal; Suwa' was the idol of (the tribe of) Murad and then by Ban, Ghutaif at Al-Jurf near Saba; Yauq was the idol of Hamdan, and Nasr was the idol of Himyr, the branch of Dhi-al-Kala.' The names (of the idols) formerly belonged to some pious men of the people of Noah, and when they died Satan inspired their people to (prepare and place idols at the places where they used to sit, and to call those idols by their names. The people did so, but the idols were not worshipped till those people (who initiated them) had died and the origin of the idols had become obscure, whereupon people began worshipping them.

If you could please post some ISLAMIC evidence for your idea, as opposed to creation stories and myths, then that would be nice.

Imam Baghawi reports that
these five were in fact righteous servants Allah who lived in the
intervening period between Prophets 'Adam and Nuh (alayhim salaam). There
were many people who held them in high regard and followed their
footsteps. Even after their death, they followed their footsteps and
complied with Divine injunctions. A while later, Satan misled them. He
put it to them that if they make pictures of their righteous elders and
place them in front, their worship would be perfect and they would attain
the quality of humility and humbleness. Those people fell into the Satanic
trap and carved statues of them and placed them in their temples. When
they saw the statues of their elders, their memories were refreshed and
experienced a special feeling. That generation gradually died and a new
generation came up. Satan played another trick with them. He imparted
to them that the object of worship of their elders were statues and idols.
They fell for this trick and worshipped them. This is the beginning of
idol-worship or idolatry

The above is quoted from Maariful Qur'an, the tafseer by Mufti Rafi Usmani.