Congregational Witr - 2+1; How should a Hanafi respond?

[ArashSajjad]

This is from The Majlis Volume 18 Number 12:

Question: Is it permissible for Hanafis to follow a Shaafi ’ Imaam in Witr Salaat during Ramadhaan? If the Imaam is a Hanafi, can Shaafi’s follow in the Witr? Is there any difference in the Musjids in Makkah and Madina (the Haramain)?

Answer: It is not permissible for a Hanafi to follow a Shaafi’ Imaam in Witr. The reason for the prohibition are:
(a) The Shaafi makes niyyat of Sunnat whereas for the Hanafi it is Waajib.
(b) The Shaafi performs two and one raka’ts separately, i.e. with two Salaams whereas this is not permissible for Hanafis. This ruling applies in all Musaajid, even in the Haramain Musjids.
It is permissible for the Shaafi’ to follow the Hanafi in Witr since three raka’ts performed by the Wasl method is valid.

[PakSwed]

Can Mufti Saheb please look into if my suggestion is acceptable:

If the imam prays 2+1, will it be permissable to intend the first 2 rakats as nafl and the last rakat as Witr, but standing up and performing 2 additional rakats (total 3) when the imam makes salam of the last rakat?

[abuhajira]

Unfortunately it will not be sufficient to follow the above procedure. It is better to pray individually than to make your witr salah as above. While all the Ulama Ml. Taliban have mentioned are opting for their action, the view of the madhab is kept in sight. Here is a detail answer from Mufti Talha Desai Saheb.

Also note that, though the answer starts with following a Shafi'i imam, it also deals with following Imams of Haram. So your scenario will be included therein as well.

--

According to the Hanafi Mazhhab, Witr salaat is waajib and performed with one salaam at the end of the third rakaat. According to the Shafi’ee Mazhhab, Witr salaat is Sunna and not wajib, performed with two salaams. There are other views as well within the Shafi’ee Mazhahib.

However, there are two fundamental difficulties encountered in a Hanafi following a Shafi’ee Imam in Witr salaat.

Firstly, witr salaat is waajib for Hanafi’s and sunna for Shafi’ees. Following a Shafi’ee Imam will necessitate Iqtida’ul muftarid khalfal mutanaffil (praying an obligatory salaat behind an Imam praying a salaat which is not obligatory), which is not recognised in the Hanafi Mazhhab.

Secondly, Shafi’ee Imams generally make salaam after the second rakaat of witr salaat. According to Hanafi’s, salaam is regarded to be Qati’us salaat (breaker of prayer). Following an Imam that makes salaam after the second rakaat of witr salaat is impermissible, as this salaam terminates the witr salaat.

Furthermore, the validity of a Shafi’ee Imam’s salaat does not necessitate the validity of a Hanafi Muqtadi’s salaat. In principle, the view of the Muqtadi is considered in determining the validity of his salaat behind an Imam. If the Hanafi Muqtadi is aware of the Imam carrying out actions that invalidate salaat or wudhu, he cannot perform salaat behind such an Imam. Hence, it will not be permissible to follow a Shafi’ee Imam in salaat, whose intention is of performing sunna witr salaat and makes salaam after two rakaats, as these invalidate the salaat in the Hanafi Mazhhab.

باب صلاة النفل قسمان: قسم لا يسن جماعة، فمنه الرواتب مع الفرائض وهي: ركعتان قبل الصبح، وركعتان قبل الظهر، وكذا بعدها وبعد المغرب والعشاء. وقيل لا راتب للعشاء. وقيل أربع قبل الظهر، وقيل وأربع بعدها. وقيل وأربع قبل العصر، والجميع سنة، وإنما الخلاف في الراتب المؤكد. وركعتان خفيفتان قبل المغرب. قلت: هما سنة على الصحيح، ففي صحيح البخاري الأمر بهما وبعد الجمعة أربع. وقبلها ما قبل الظهر. والله أعلم.
ومنه الوتر، وأقله ركعة، وأكثره إحدى عشرة (المنهاج 1/44)
وذهب جمهور الفقهاء إلي أن الوتر سنة مؤكدة وليس واجبا ........وذهب أبو حنيفة خلافا لصاحبيه – وأبو بكر من الحنابلة إلي أن الوتر واجب وليس بفرض (الموسوعة الفقهية الكويتية 27/289)

Our respected Ustadh, Mufti Ebrahim Desai Sahab conducted a research when there was a difference of opinion on this issue amongst certain Ulama approximately 15 years ago. His view was that witr is not permissible behind the Imams of Haramain. The different views were presented to Darul Uloom Karachi, which supported the view of non permissibility. Unfortunately we do not have record of those researches and the Fatwa from Darul Uloom Karachi. It is possible that Madrassa Ta’leemudeen has a copy of those researches and the Fatwa.

Many of our Akabireen have clearly stated in their Fatawa Books that it is not permissible to follow an Imam that makes salaam after two rakaats in witr salaat.

Hereunder, we present the conditions mentioned by our Fuqahaa for the validity of a Hanafi following a Shafi’ee Imam:

- The Shafi’ee Imam should not do actions that will invalidate his wudhu or salaat according to the Hanafi Mazhhab. For example, he makes masah of less than quarter head. Though his wudhu is acceptable in the Shafi’ee Mazhhab, it is not acceptable in the Hanafi Mazhhab. Hence, in such instance, it will not be permissible to follow him in salaat.

مَطْلَبٌ فِي الِاقْتِدَاءِ بِشَافِعِيٍّ وَنَحْوِهِ هَلْ يُكْرَهُ أَمْ لَا ؟ وَظَاهِرُ كَلَامِ شَرْحِ الْمُنْيَةِ أَيْضًا حَيْثُ قَالَ : وَأَمَّا الِاقْتِدَاءُ بِالْمُخَالِفِ فِي الْفُرُوعِ كَالشَّافِعِيِّ فَيَجُوزُ مَا لَمْ يُعْلَمْ مِنْهُ مَا يُفْسِدُ الصَّلَاةَ عَلَى اعْتِقَادِ الْمُقْتَدِي عَلَيْهِ الْإِجْمَاع ( رد المحتار 1/563، سعيد)

لَكِنْ ذَكَرَ الْعَلَّامَةُ نُوحٌ أَفَنْدِي أَنَّ اعْتِبَارَ رَأْيِ الْمُقْتَدِي فِي الْجَوَازِ وَعَدَمِهِ مُتَّفَقٌ عَلَيْهِ وَإِنَّمَا الْخِلَافُ الْمَارُّ فِي اعْتِبَارِ رَأْيِ الْإِمَامِ أَيْضًا ؛ فَالْحَنَفِيُّ إذَا رَأَى فِي ثَوْبِ إمَامٍ شَافِعِيٍّ مَنِيًّا لَا يَجُوزُ اقْتِدَاؤُهُ بِهِ اتِّفَاقًا ، وَإِنْ رَأَى نَجَاسَةً قَلِيلَةً جَازَ عِنْدَ الْجُمْهُورِ (رد المحتار 2/8، سعيد)

- The Hanafi Muqtadi should have certainty that the Shafi’ee Imam is cautious in those rulings wherein there exists difference of opinion between the two Mazhhabs. For example, if any limb of the Shafi’ee Imam bleeds, he makes wudhu, accommodating the Hanafi Mazhhab. In this instance, it will be permissible to follow him in salaat.

If the Hanafi Muqtadi is certain that the Shafi’ee Imam is not cautious in this regard; he cannot perform salaat behind him. And if he is doubtful as to whether the Shafi’ee Imam is cautious or not, it will be Makruh Al-Tahrimi to perform salaat behind him.

لكن في وتر البحر إن تيقن المراعاة لم يكره أو عدمها لم يصح إن شك كره ( و ) يكره تحريما (الدر المختار 1/563)
( قَوْلُهُ لَكِنْ فِي وِتْرِ الْبَحْرِ إلَخْ ) هَذَا هُوَ الْمُعْتَمَدُ ، لِأَنَّ الْمُحَقِّقِينَ جَنَحُوا إلَيْهِ ، وَقَوَاعِدُ الْمَذْهَبِ شَاهِدَةٌ عَلَيْهِ .
وَقَالَ كَثِيرٌ مِنْ الْمَشَايِخِ : إنْ كَانَ عَادَتُهُ مُرَاعَاةَ مَوَاضِعِ الْخِلَافِ جَازَ وَإِلَّا فَلَا ، ذَكَرَهُ السِّنْدِيُّ الْمُتَقَدِّمُ ذِكْرُهُ ح .
قُلْت : وَهَذَا بِنَاءً عَلَى أَنَّ الْعِبْرَةَ لِرَأْيِ الْمُقْتَدِي وَهُوَ الْأَصَحُّ....... ( قَوْلُهُ إنْ تَيَقَّنَ الْمُرَاعَاةَ لَمْ يُكْرَهْ إلَخْ ) أَيْ الْمُرَاعَاةُ فِي الْفَرَائِضِ مِنْ شُرُوطٍ وَأَرْكَانٍ فِي تِلْكَ الصَّلَاةِ وَإِنْ لَمْ يُرَاعِ الْوَاجِبَاتِ وَالسُّنَنَ كَمَا هُوَ ظَاهِرُ سِيَاقِ كَلَامِ الْبَحْرِ . ( رد المحتار 1/563، سعيد)
( قَوْلُهُ كَمَا بَسَطَهُ فِي الْبَحْرِ ) حَيْثُ ذَكَرَ أَنَّ الْحَاصِلَ أَنَّهُ إنْ عَلِمَ الِاحْتِيَاطَ مِنْهُ فِي مَذْهَبِنَا فَلَا كَرَاهَةَ فِي الِاقْتِدَاءِ بِهِ وَإِنْ عَلِمَ عَدَمَهُ فَلَا صِحَّةَ ، وَإِنْ لَمْ يَعْلَمْ شَيْئًا كُرِهَ ( رد المحتار 2/7، سعيد)

- The Shafi’ee Imaam should not make two salaams in Witr Salaat (salaam after the second rakaat and after the third rakaat). If he makes two salaams, it will not be permissible to follow him.
(Khairul Fatawa, vol 2, pg 517, Maktaba Imdadiyya / Risalah - Iqtida Bi Al-Shafi’iyya by Shaykh Ali Sindhi, Makhtuut / Fatawa Uthmani, vol 1, pg 517, Maktaba Ma’arif Al-Quran)

( وَصَحَّ الِاقْتِدَاءُ فِيهِ ) فَفِي غَيْرِهِ أَوْلَى إنْ لَمْ يَتَحَقَّقْ مِنْهُ مَا يُفْسِدُهَا فِي الْأَصَحِّ كَمَا بَسَطَهُ فِي الْبَحْرِ ( بِشَافِعِيٍّ ) مَثَلًا ( لَمْ يَفْصِلْهُ بِسَلَامٍ ) لَا إنْ فَصَلَهُ ( عَلَى الْأَصَحِّ ) فِيهِمَا لِلِاتِّحَادِ وَإِنْ اخْتَلَفَ الِاعْتِقَادُ(الدر المختار 2/7،سعيد)

If the above conditions are fulfilled, it will be permissible to follow a Shafi’ee Imam in Witr salaat. The Hanafi Muqtadi will recite the Qunoot after the ruku’ of the third rakat.

وَلَوْ بِشَافِعِيٍّ يَقْنُتُ بَعْدَ الرُّكُوعِ لِأَنَّهُ مُجْتَهِدٌ فِيهِ ( لَا الْفَجْرِ ) لِأَنَّهُ مَنْسُوخٌ ( بَلْ يَقِفُ سَاكِتًا عَلَى الْأَظْهَرِ ) مُرْسِلًا يَدَيْهِ . (الدر المختار 2/7،سعيد)

We are not in a position to issue a ruling regarding a Shafi’ee following a Hanafi Imam. Shafi’ee Ulama should be consulted for a ruling. However, Allamah Aini (Rahimahullah) has stated that the conditions applicable to a Hanafi following a Shafi’ee will also be applicable in the case of a Shafi’ee following a Hanafi.

الشافعي أيضا يقول بمثله في حق الحنفي فيقول : لا يجوز إقتداء الشافعي الحنفي إلا إذا كان يحتاط في موضع الخلاف........ يجوز إقتداء الحنفي بالشافعي و الشافعي بالحنفي وكذا بالمالكي والحنبلي ما لم يتحقق من إمامه ما يفسد صلاته في إعتقاده (رمز الحقائق 1/46، إدارة القرآن كما في فتاوي عثماني)

If the Imams of the Haramain abide by the conditions mentioned by our Fuqahaa, it will be permissible to perform salaat behind them. In the case of Witr salaat, if they make two salaams, it will not be permissible to perform salaat behind them. The Witr salaat should be performed separately. It will be incorrect to perform the Witr salaat behind the Imam and thereafter repeat it.

Note:
Ihtiyaat and precaution is to perform witr salaat individually even if the Imams of Haramain makes one salaam, as they consider witr salaat as sunna whilst Hanafi’s consider it wajib.

The Fuqahaa have stated:
If the Shafi’ee Imam makes a general intention of witr salaat, it will be permissible to follow him. However, if he makes an intention of performing sunna or nafl witr, he cannot be followed. Generally, muqtadi’s are unaware of the intention of the Imam. Hence, Ihtiyaat will be to perform salaat individually.
(Risalah - Iqtida Bi Al-Shafi’iyya by Shaykh Ali Sindhi, Makhtuut / Imdad Al-Ahkam, vol 1, pg 591, Maktaba Darul Uloom Karachi)

وبالثاني كذالك .فهذا غير مشروع قصدا لأنه تكرار الفرض وهو منهي عنه ومكروه بلا عذر..............إن الشروع في الصلاة مع الإحتمال للفساد أو الكراهة قبيح و مكروه لما فيه من تعرض العمل علي البطلان أو النقصان فتعين الإحتراز عنه (رسالة في بيان الإقتداء بالشافعية والخلاف في ذالك ، شيخ علي السندي ، مخطوط)

The following books could be consulted for further reference:

(Tabyeen Al- Haqaaiq with Hashiyya of Shalabi / Al- Hidaya / Risalah - Iqtida Bi Al-Shafi’iyya by Shaykh Ali Sindhi, Makhtuut / Fath Al-Qadeer / Al-Bahr al-Raiq with Minha Al-Khaliq / Al-Fatawa al-Hindiyya / Fatawaa Uthmani / Imdaad Al-Ahkam)

And Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Talha Desai

[NNoor]

The imam who is leading tarawih at my masjid proposed the following method of witr, and said that it is acceptable to all mazahib:

3 rakat with one taslim, but qunut is read aloud by the imam after ruku.

Is it really acceptable to all mazahib?

[Adil Faiyaz]

Jazak'Allah Khayr.

Mufti Sahab, the local Imam is now leading in a different way. I am totally unaware of what is this method so chose to leave out after 8 Rakahs. The local Imam now prays Witr with one Salam, however he does not sit after the second Rakah but rather stands up like he does in the first. Also, there is no qunoot aloud rather there are two comparatively longer Sajda-s in the third Rakah. Should I join or keep praying alone as I do abhi?

Apologies for so many questions on the same topic. I'm confused.

[NNoor]

bump

The imam who is leading tarawih at my masjid proposed the following method of witr, and said that it is acceptable to all mazahib:

3 rakat with one taslim, but qunut is read aloud by the imam after ruku.

Is it really acceptable to all mazahib?

[mohtashims]

According to Hanafi’s, salaam is regarded to be Qati’us salaat (breaker of prayer).

[/B]

Mufti Saheb if the above was true then how come Hanafi do Salam with "Sajda Sa'oo" before completing their salah in case of breaking a wajib whilst salah?

[abdulwahhab]

Mufti Saheb if the above was true then how come Hanafi do Salam with "Sajda Sa'oo" before completing their salah in case of breaking a wajib whilst salah?

Tasleem involves a salaam to the right and then to the left. You'll notice that in janazah salah, Hanafis say salaam both to the right and then to the left. So, the salah is not finished until both salaams are said. This is just my logical assumption at this point. Mufti saheb can provide evidence from hadeeth.

[a.s.]

Mufti Saheb if the above was true then how come Hanafi do Salam with "Sajda Sa'oo" before completing their salah in case of breaking a wajib whilst salah?

Sajda sahw is performed with only one salam to the right, in the Hanafi Madhab. Im assuming the breaking of salah only happens when both salams (to the left and right) are performed. Mufti sahb can confrm.

[a.s.]

Jazak'Allah Khayr.

Mufti Sahab, the local Imam is now leading in a different way. I am totally unaware of what is this method so chose to leave out after 8 Rakahs. The local Imam now prays Witr with one Salam, however he does not sit after the second Rakah but rather stands up like he does in the first. Also, there is no qunoot aloud rather there are two comparatively longer Sajda-s in the third Rakah. Should I join or keep praying alone as I do abhi?

Apologies for so many questions on the same topic. I'm confused.

I think that witr with three rakah with one sitting all throughout is also an option in the shafi'i madhab. Dont know what to make of the prolonged sajdahs. Any shafi'i brother who can further explain this, or muftu abuhajira?