Scientific error in hadith?-500 years distance??

[garet122]

Hi,

Ibn Khuzaymah narrated in his Saheeh (9105) and in his Kitaab al-Tawheed (no. 594) that Ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “Between the lowest heaven and the one above it is (a distance of) five hundred years, and between each heaven and the next is (a distance of) five hundred years marching.” According to another report: “The thickness of each heaven is a distance of five hundred years marching. Between the seventh heaven and the Footstool (al-Kursiy) is (a distance of) five hundred years. Between the Footstool and the water is (a distance of) five hundred years. The Throne is above the water and Allaah is above the Throne, and none of your deeds are concealed from Him.” It was classed as saheeh by al-Dhahabi in al-‘Alw (p. 64) and by Ibn al-Qayyim in Ijtimaa’ al-Juyoosh al-Islamiyyah, p. 100.

It was narrated that Ibn Mas’ood said: Between the first heaven and the one above it is (a distance of) five hundred years. Between each of the heavens is (a distance of) five hundred years. Between the seventh heaven and the Kursiy is (a distance of) five hundred years. Between the Kursiy and the water is (a distance of) five hundred years, and the Throne is above the water. Allaah is above the Throne, and nothing whatsoever of your deeds is hidden from Him. (narrated by Ibn Khuzaymah in al-Tawheed, p. 105; by al-Bayhaqi in al-Asmaa’ wa’l-Sifaat, p. 401).
This report was classed as saheeh by Ibn al-Qayyim in Ijtimaa’ al-Juyoosh al-Islamiyah, p. 100; by al-Dhahabi in al-‘Uluw, p. 64).
Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said:
This hadeeth stops at Ibn Mas’ood (it is mawqoof), but this is one of the matters concerning which there is no room for personal opinion, so it comes under the heading of marfoo’ [ahaadeeth whose isnaad goes back to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)], because Ibn Mas’ood is not known to have taken anything from the Israa’eeliyyaat [reports derived from Jewish sources].


This is scientifically inacurate... 500 years distance between the heavens and water in the end of the universe?!

[MinistrydeTruth]

You are a desert arab with no universties, no colleges, no traditions of empiricism within physics, no books, no labs, no hubble telescope, no telescopes in fact
and you are describing distances to other desert arabs ?
Ever thought "500 years marching" might be metaphorically speaking, given it used to take 11 days camel ride from Mecca to Medina ?
The prophet would say things like "70" - to imply innumerable. It didnt mean 70 as we knew it. It was a colloquialism for many many many...much much much..

[abdulwahhab]

Hi,

Ibn Khuzaymah narrated in his Saheeh (9105) and in his Kitaab al-Tawheed (no. 594) that Ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “Between the lowest heaven and the one above it is (a distance of) five hundred years, and between each heaven and the next is (a distance of) five hundred years marching.” According to another report: “The thickness of each heaven is a distance of five hundred years marching. Between the seventh heaven and the Footstool (al-Kursiy) is (a distance of) five hundred years. Between the Footstool and the water is (a distance of) five hundred years. The Throne is above the water and Allaah is above the Throne, and none of your deeds are concealed from Him.” It was classed as saheeh by al-Dhahabi in al-‘Alw (p. 64) and by Ibn al-Qayyim in Ijtimaa’ al-Juyoosh al-Islamiyyah, p. 100.

It was narrated that Ibn Mas’ood said: Between the first heaven and the one above it is (a distance of) five hundred years. Between each of the heavens is (a distance of) five hundred years. Between the seventh heaven and the Kursiy is (a distance of) five hundred years. Between the Kursiy and the water is (a distance of) five hundred years, and the Throne is above the water. Allaah is above the Throne, and nothing whatsoever of your deeds is hidden from Him. (narrated by Ibn Khuzaymah in al-Tawheed, p. 105; by al-Bayhaqi in al-Asmaa’ wa’l-Sifaat, p. 401).
This report was classed as saheeh by Ibn al-Qayyim in Ijtimaa’ al-Juyoosh al-Islamiyah, p. 100; by al-Dhahabi in al-‘Uluw, p. 64).
Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said:
This hadeeth stops at Ibn Mas’ood (it is mawqoof), but this is one of the matters concerning which there is no room for personal opinion, so it comes under the heading of marfoo’ [ahaadeeth whose isnaad goes back to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)], because Ibn Mas’ood is not known to have taken anything from the Israa’eeliyyaat [reports derived from Jewish sources].


This is scientifically inacurate... 500 years distance between the heavens and water in the end of the universe?!

So, tell me, which physicist has shown or proven what exists beyond the universe to suggest that what is in the hadeeth is "scientifically inacurate"? Also, there is no scale mentioned. 500 years of what - a car ride? A walk? Light speed? Faster than light speed, whose existence has recently emerged as a possibility?

[garet122]

So, tell me, which physicist has shown or proven what exists beyond the universe to suggest that what is in the hadeeth is "scientifically inacurate"? Also, there is no scale mentioned. 500 years of what - a car ride? A walk? Light speed? Faster than light speed, whose existence has recently emerged as a possibility?

But the water... that isnt making sense!

[abdulwahhab]

But the water... that isnt making sense!

How does it not make sense? Furthermore, God created everything. If He wills it, he can flood the entire universe with water so what is the problem with having water outside of the universe? God willed the universe into existence from nothingness. To create something from nothing is more astonishing than water existing outside the universe, yet not even scientists can tell or even theorize about the cause of the universe except to claim that it existed eternally, which makes no logical sense as it defies causality, the basis of all rational thought.

A lot of stuff that scientists have observed makes no sense, which is the reason that even quantum physics seems to be on the way out, with even more theoretical models trying to accommodate for what has been seen around the universe, recently. For example, according to Einstein, nothing could travel faster than light but scientists have observed things that do travel faster than light. This was a severe blow to the theory of relativity.

But without even observing things and thinking about them, none of these things make sense in the absence of God. How did matter come into existence? What caused the change that made it expand? What gave matter its properties? Even the recently discovered Higgs field is something unexplainable. How did that come into being? We know it exists, but how did it come into existence? What gave the initial hydrogen atoms the ability to morph and increase their proton and neutron count to "evolve" into different types of atoms? All these "innate" properties that we take for granted cannot exist without a lawmaker. A computer programmer will tell you that things don't automatically come into existence. A doctor will tell you that every illness inevitably has an etiology, even if it may be unknown. But, what happens with those scientists who try to explain the beginnings of the universe in a godless universe is that they end up with saying that eternity of matter is a valid observation, which goes against everything we have ever learned about science. They claim things happened but they cannot even theorize why.

[Nomadic]

One with no understanding of Arabic language (its usage) is trying to project their relative meaning. Sciences is relative - its finding is ever changing!!
Instead of trying to draw ones own conclusion, perhaps it would be better if one actually asked the person who knows. Unlike chistian we the majority muslims are not hyper literalist. Hence it is frowned upon (actually prohibited) to derive law by mere reading of text without the knowledge of the language, its use and context.
Allahualm

[Abu Zakir]

Imagine trying to describe a computer and the internet to someone from 6th century Britain? How would you even begin? You would probably end up sounding like a mad man, only if someone read it in this time would they understand it.

[TripolySunni]

You are a desert arab with no universties, no colleges, no traditions of empiricism within physics, no books, no labs, no hubble telescope, no telescopes in fact
and you are describing distances to other desert arabs ?
Ever thought "500 years marching" might be metaphorically speaking, given it used to take 11 days camel ride from Mecca to Medina ?
The prophet would say things like "70" - to imply innumerable. It didnt mean 70 as we knew it. It was a colloquialism for many many many...much much much..

Salam `Aleykum,


What you said is true, these expressions are simply used to illustrate the great distance. It doesn't mean that he took the exact measure.

[sakeranz]

^^
what's wrong with water? even the Sun has water on it.....

[a.s.]

^^
what's wrong with water? even the Sun has water on it.....

Um.... no, it doesnt. I really, really hope you were joking.