Stoning to Death for Adultary (or Rajm)

[Abu Zakir]

Conditions for it to be valid:

1) The rule and authority is Islamic.
2) There are 4 male and realiable, sane honest witnesses that witness that the actual act of sexual intercourse (not just them sleeping together but actual penetration) is taking place.
3) The adulterer is married to someone else.
4) Or the adulterer confesses to someone in authority and hands themselves in.

It is almost impossible for all these conditions to be met, so actual punishments would be very rare, the law is so tough because it acts as a deterrant when people are brought up in a society where such laws exist...they know in their hearts and minds that it is really bad so they are unlikely to even go towards such acts.

Can this law be applied in a land that has newely been brought under Islamic rule? Or is it better to wait until people are brought up to speed and educated gradually? What if the Islamic authority and rule is lax in applying other parts of the shariah, for example they allow Capitalism to function unhidered with its riba and fraudulant transactions and allow the rich to steal using the pen and other sophisticated means while they punish the poor and adulterers in this way...is rajm still valid in a situation like this? How can sinners who continue to sin big, punish others?

[mh16388]

Conditions for it to be valid:

1) The rule and authority is Islamic.
2) There are 4 male and realiable, sane honest witnesses that witness that the actual act of sexual intercourse (not just them sleeping together but actual penetration) is taking place.
3) The adulterer is married to someone else.
4) Or the adulterer confesses to someone in authority and hands themselves in.

It is almost impossible for all these conditions to be met, so actual punishments would be very rare, the law is so tough because it acts as a deterrant when people are brought up in a society where such laws exist...they know in their hearts and minds that it is really bad so they are unlikely to even go towards such acts.

Can this law be applied in a land that has newely been brought under Islamic rule? Or is it better to wait until people are brought up to speed and educated gradually? What if the Islamic authority and rule is lax in applying other parts of the shariah, for example they allow Capitalism to function unhidered with its riba and fraudulant transactions and allow the rich to steal using the pen and other sophisticated means while they punish the poor and adulterers in this way...is rajm still valid in a situation like this? How can sinners who continue to sin big, punish others?

you should mail one of the ifta sites and ask for a detailed answer. this would be better than asking here when there are too many people to confuse you.

[Abu Zakir]

you should mail one of the ifta sites and ask for a detailed answer. this would be better than asking here when there are too many people to confuse you.

I just thought I would put it here as well because this has been discussed in other threads and it has been presented as one of the fundamental beliefs of Islam, denial of which takes one out of Islam. However the conditions for its application were not discussed.

Would you agree that people who want to apply this rule without the strict conditions on others have something wrong with them psychologically? Or it creates a totalitarian culture where some people want to be lords over others?

I remember on haj, at Mina some people I know (including women and children) became trapped in the crowd under the bridges. There was much pushing and shoving the children were very close to being crushed to death and there were two big young healthy looking males who were finding it funny pushing and shoving and laughing. What type of character would find this situation funny? There was obviously something wrong with them mentally.

[Abu Zakir]

I recently learnt that some women are attacked in the Muslim world because they are not covered up, someone thinks they are then justified to pour acid on the womans face, disfiguring her for life and virtually destroying a persons life. Who gave permission to these crazy people to do such a thing? Islam does not teach us to do this?

[Ahmed]

I recently learnt that some women are attacked in the Muslim world because they are not covered up, someone thinks they are then justified to pour acid on the womans face, disfiguring her for life and virtually destroying a persons life. Who gave permission to these crazy people to do such a thing? Islam does not teach us to do this?

its ignorance,just like forced marriages

[mh16388]

I just thought I would put it here as well because this has been discussed in other threads and it has been presented as one of the fundamental beliefs of Islam, denial of which takes one out of Islam. However the conditions for its application were not discussed.

Would you agree that people who want to apply this rule without the strict conditions on others have something wrong with them psychologically? Or it creates a totalitarian culture where some people want to be lords over others?

I remember on haj, at Mina some people I know (including women and children) became trapped in the crowd under the bridges. There was much pushing and shoving the children were very close to being crushed to death and there were two big young healthy looking males who were finding it funny pushing and shoving and laughing. What type of character would find this situation funny? There was obviously something wrong with them mentally.

there are many things who's denial or utterance causes a person to go out of the fold of Islam. one has to be firm on this.
regarding application the details are in books of fiqh and also books of contemporary scholars. that is why i said ask a good dar ul ifta u trust.

i do not think your haj example has any relevance here.
also don't mind but i think your issue with rajm's application is more emotional than academic. no offence meant.

duas requested.

[mh16388]

I recently learnt that some women are attacked in the Muslim world because they are not covered up, someone thinks they are then justified to pour acid on the womans face, disfiguring her for life and virtually destroying a persons life. Who gave permission to these crazy people to do such a thing? Islam does not teach us to do this?

if you are talking about pakistan then my simple question is: how do you know why the woman had acid poured on her face?
secondly how do you know they took permission from a scholar to do this?
people do a lot of evil things to women in pakistan. why does Islam have to be blamed for everything? recently two women were driven from their homes after a jirga ruled them as 'kaari'. people think jirga is synonymous with islam.

[Abu Zakir]

[QUOTE=mh16388;790503]

also don't mind but i think your issue with rajm's application is more emotional than academic. no offence meant.

duas requested.

Yes I am emotional because I think people in our age who apply the rule do not follow the conditions.

[Abu Zakir]

[QUOTE=mh16388;790507]

if you are talking about pakistan then my simple question is: how do you know why the woman had acid poured on her face?
secondly how do you know they took permission from a scholar to do this?
people do a lot of evil things to women in pakistan. why does Islam have to be blamed for everything? recently two women were driven from their homes after a jirga ruled them as 'kaari'. people think jirga is synonymous with islam.

I heard it happens in Egypt, Algeria and Pakistan. You think a scholar can give permission for this?

[abdulwahhab]

Yes I am emotional because I think people in our age who apply the rule do not follow the conditions.

On what basis? Have you ever been present at the court hearings which do happen in places like Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan?