Hamza Yusuf- Tawassul

[Mujib]

I always wanted to know his view, well here it is.

Versions with only Shaykh Hamza's discussion can be heard here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88I1CKlxeV8 ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIGWKAn4_UE ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0Yhf...feature=relmfu .

[Mujib]

Wa `alaykum as-salam

Shaykh Hamza Yusuf didn't even speak about Istigathah so the title is misleading. He said Tawassul is permissible.

He does speak about istighatha. It is clear from the discussion that he is speaking about both forms of tawassul; he specifies both.

[Abu Zakariya Yahya]

I'm confused about the Deobandi ruling concerning Istighaatha, what is the final (if any) verdict of the Deobandis concerning it?

[abdulwahhab]

I'm confused about the Deobandi ruling concerning Istighaatha, what is the final (if any) verdict of the Deobandis concerning it?

http://www.deoband.org/2010/09/aqida...er-than-allah/
http://www.deoband.org/2009/02/aqida...efs/istigatha/

[SeekerOfGuidance]

I'm confused about the Deobandi ruling concerning Istighaatha, what is the final (if any) verdict of the Deobandis concerning it?

The Deobandi position on Istagatha, as it is defined today, is very clear, and is identical to that of the vast majority of the classical fuqaha:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...m-the-Creation

Those who pursue minority weak opinions, under the pretext of 'valid ikhtilaaf' can justify anything.

You will see that the accepted Mujaddids, at whose hands Allah has already brought about the spiritual reformation of millions, were sufis whose Manhaj was clearly different to that of many of the brands of Satanism today cloaked under the garb of sufism.

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...l=1#post766019

[junfrared]

Dear junfrared, do follow the thread carefully before making accusations. Brother Jadeed changed his post to what you've quoted him as it did not contain the part that you've bolded.

This is not accurate. In Imam Muhammad's transmission of Imam Malik's Muwatta', he has a chapter Bab Ziyarat Qabr al-Nabi sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam wa ma yustahabbu min dhalika (Chapter on Visiting the Grave of the Prophet...); in which he narrates from Malik, from 'Abd Allah ibn Dinar from Ibn 'Umar that he would visit the grave of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam) when he wished to travel from Madinah or when he returned from a journey to Madinah, and at the grave he would say salam to him and do du'a. After this, Imam Muhammad al-Shaybani says:

هكذا ينبغي أن يفعل إذا قدم المدينة يأتي قبر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم

"This is what one should do when he arrives at Madinah, attend the grave of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam)."

for the correction. I amend my statement forthwith. A better statement is: there is no book with a chapter or narration or anything on the desirability of tawassul with the Prophet nor asking him for his intercession.

I have never yet seen a citation or narration proving the purported ijmaa' on permissibility from the early generations.

Brother Adbdulwahaab it wasn't accusation, because Jadeed's statement is still correct, he claimed there is no evidence of tawassul with Prophet (after his death), now he is still claiming the same.

And quoting the practice of Abdullah Bin Umar (Radi Allahu anhuma) in context of Tawassul or intercession is EXPLICIT DECEPTION, because Abdullah Bin Umar (Radi Allahu anhuma) went to grave to perform "Salam" and to DO PRAYERS FOR PROPHET saw NOT FOR TO ASKING to Rasullah saw to do prayer him (it is one of the innovative kind of Tawassul). And he did this only when he went to travel or returned from travel. So Muzzammil Husein's statement is still misquotation with it's EVERY aspect. (whether he did deliberately or accidentally)

[junfrared]

The Deobandi position on Istagatha, as it is defined today, is very clear, and is identical to that of the vast majority of the classical fuqaha:

Walikum Usalam,

Confusion of our Brother Abu Zakariyah is valid, generally we are very cleared about Istagatha, but still we have some articles, stories, "Mal-fuzaat" which creates severe confusion about our instance. So we are in dilemma, we can't accept them but at the same time we don't have enough courage to reject them as they are transmitted for our Shuyukh.

[abdulwahhab]

Brother Adbdulwahaab it wasn't accusation, because Jadeed's statement is still correct, he claimed there is no evidence of tawassul with Prophet (after his death), now he is still claiming the same.

And quoting the practice of Abdullah Bin Umar (Radi Allahu anhuma) in context of Tawassul or intercession is EXPLICIT DECEPTION, because Abdullah Bin Umar (Radi Allahu anhuma) went to grave to perform "Salam" and to DO PRAYERS FOR PROPHET saw NOT FOR TO ASKING to Rasullah saw to do prayer him (it is one of the innovative kind of Tawassul). And he did this only when he went to travel or returned from travel. So Muzzammil Husein's statement is still misquotation with it's EVERY aspect. (whether he did deliberately or accidentally)

Brother, again, Jadeed's original post before he edited it claimed that there is no statement in the books of hadeeth about ziyarah of the graves, to which Mawlana Muzzammil Husayn responded that there actually is. To that, brother Jadeed thanked him for the correction and edited his post to better reflect what he wanted to say. So, you were accusing Mawlana of misquoting him, when he clearly did not since Jadeed had to go back and edit his post.

[SyedSufi]

inshallah i will go to madinah tomorow. I apprive of tawassul simply because ahlussuna scholars agree with it. I will use dua-e-tawassul. Btw what about that hadith of umar or ibn umar ( cant rem) goingnto the gtave and asking rasul saw to pray to Allah for rain or something.

[SyedSufi]

here it is: it is related from Malik al-Dar, `Umar's treasurer, that the people suffered a drought during the successorship of `Umar, whereupon a man came to the grave of the Prophet and said: "O Messenger of Allah, ask for rain for your Community, for verily they have but perished," after which the Prophet appeared to him in a dream and told him: "Go to `Umar and give him my greeting, then tell him that they will be watered. Tell him: You must be clever, you must be clever!" The man went and told `Umar. The latter said: "O my Lord, I spare no effort except in what escapes my power!' -Bayhaqi 2.Ibn Kathir cites it thus from Bayhaqi in al-Bidaya wa al-nihaya and says: isnaduhu sahih 3. Ibn Abi Shayba cites it in his Musannaf with a sound (sahih) chain as confirmed by Ibn Hajar who says: rawa Ibn Abi Shayba bi isnadin sahih and cites the hadith in Fath al-Bari. He identifies Malik al-Dar as `Umar's treasurer (khazin `umar) and says that the man who visited and saw the Prophet in his dream is identified as the Companion Bilal ibn al-Harith, and he counts this hadith among the reasons for Bukhari's naming of the chapter "The people's request to their leader for rain if they suffer drought." He also mentions it in al-Isaba, where he says that Ibn Abi Khaythama cited it.

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