Hamza Yusuf- Tawassul

[junfrared]

Bro Junfrared,

Sorry for being off topic. You posted the recording of hakeem mazhar sahib sahib on some forum about ml ilyas ghumman. Someone asked hakeem mazhar sahib and he denies it being his recording.

Walikum Usalm,


Bhai Taliban, this issue have lot of undeniable contradictions. I have showed you that Illyas Ghumman Sahab is "Mutakalim-e-Islam", "Munazir-e-Islam", "Tarjuman-e-Deodand" (as he claims and his promoters claim, BUT I DO NOT THINK SO)

1) Nonetheless he is Munzir-e-Islam, he don't know how to read the name of Imam Nawawi (Allamah NOVI ) (this is something like someone self proclaimed Shakespeare can't tell you ABCD correctly)

2) Despite his Claim of "Mutakalim-e-Islam", "Munazir-e-Islam" he don't have ANY ONE face to face Munzirah to his Kalami opponents in his ENTIRE CAREER of Polemics (because he knows VERY WELL if he did this then what will be the consequences)

3) Despite that I don't believe in Peeri-Muridi-Khilafat issues, and I consider it as a Bidat and Lie against Prophet saw, and his companion as I have proved here in post # 4. But to show you the contradiction I raised the issue of his Khilfate.

Hakeem Akhtar Sahab has published rules of Khilafate, thereby he nulls and voids his Khulafas' Khilafate, according to those rules, (which have been publicly disseminated) if any of his Khalifah (including Illyas Ghumman) violates any rule then his Khilafate will AUTOMATICALLY be annulled. Therefore you can decide on your own, who is right and who is wrong, if you spare IG then it means Khaniqah Ashrafiiyah has contradiction in their claims and deeds, I know that you can't accept it, otherwise you can blame the IG. As far as I concern so I can't say how can I resolve these both sided contradiction. Because recently he made a central bayan in some Khaniqh program

I'm not against anybody personally, but when he made us a joke,

• He said Allah Ta'ala is transcend from EXISTENCE (Allah Ta'ala "Wujood" say pak hai, when people refuted him then he weird taweel, said in Punjabi "wujood" means "Jism", however his bayan was in Urdu, and word "wujood" has nothing to do with Punjabi)

• He said I'll defend the Deodandis so please donate me, then he said I need million of rupees to work, then he collected good amount, then he published the chart in defense of Deodandis, against AeH's claims that we don't have any sahi hadith for women prayers, then without reading some good book, even a "booklet" which will cost him few rupees, let alone "E'la Usunnan", he published a chart in which he gave a Hadith of women prayer, which was in defense of Deoband and against the claim of AeH, not having Sahi Hadith, the reference is "al-Kamil fi Dhu'afa' al-Rijal by Abne 'Adi" these few glimpse of jokes.

Then it is obligatory for us to clean the Deodandis from these things.

[SyedSufi]

G. F Haddah is a deceptive Barelvi, and a fabricator.

asalamalikum. Barelvis arr only on subcontinent brother

[faizanakram99]

With all due respect, can you please explain to me how an aathar from a drunkard historian (as per his biography in Siyar) past the year 200 hijri and then the resultant dream can possibly be taken as a Shari' evidence to perform any action whatsoever?

I would like it if you could quote to me from some books of usul al-fiqh about that.

This is called Hadith of `Utbi, it is full waahi, Tabahi, mawzoou' and self-contradictory narration. I think it is not in his Tafseer, he narrated it in his history book. This mawzoou narration is explicitly against the Quran, the numerous Sahi, sound, Mashoor, Muttafaqun 'Alaihi Ahadith, against the sunnat of Pious Kulafah. Against the practice of KHAIRUL QUROON. As far as know, nobody used this mawzoou hadith as evidence of innovative tawassul, until The Subki (700th hijri Scholar, Then Hathami ~900 H, ......etc). And then people says Imam Ibne Taymiyah r.a was very first man opposed this tawassul in entire period of this Ummah, so yes, he should be, because before him nobody created this fitnah of this.

The incident is mentioned in Tafseer of Ibn Katheer...!

Click Here To View The Original Post

See Below

I am not well versed in arabic so won't comment on this... but Ibn Kathir RA in his Tafsir has indeed used "etha waqa'a" . So it further proves that Ibn Kathir RA considered it permissible to make tawassul. See here for reference...

وقوله: ( وَلَوْ أَنْهُمْ إِذْ ظَلَمُوا أَنْفُسَهُمْ جَاءُوكَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُوا اللَّهَ وَاسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ الرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُوا اللَّهَ تَوَّابًا رَحِيمًا ) يرشد تعالى العصاة والمذنبين إذا وقع منهم الخطأ والعصيان أن يأتوا إلى الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم فيستغفروا الله عنده، ويسألوه أن يستغفر لهم، فإنهم إذا فعلوا ذلك تاب الله عليهم ورحمهم وغفر لهم، ولهذا قال: ( لَوَجَدُوا اللَّهَ تَوَّابًا رَحِيمًا )

وقد ذكر جماعة منهم: الشيخ أبو نصر بن الصباغ في كتابه "الشامل" الحكاية المشهورة عن < 2-348 > العُتْبي، قال: كنت جالسا عند قبر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم، فجاء أعرابي فقال: السلام عليك يا رسول الله، سمعت الله يقول: ( وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ إِذْ ظَلَمُوا أَنْفُسَهُمْ جَاءُوكَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُوا اللَّهَ وَاسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ الرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُوا اللَّهَ تَوَّابًا رَحِيمًا ) وقد جئتك مستغفرا لذنبي مستشفعا بك إلى ربي ثم أنشأ يقول:

يا خيـرَ من دُفنَت بالقـاع أعظُمُــه
فطـاب مـنْ طيبهـنّ القـاعُ والأكَـمُ
نَفْســي الفـداءُ لقـبرٍ أنـت ســاكنُه
فيـه العفـافُ وفيـه الجـودُ والكـرمُ

ثم انصرف الأعرابي فغلبتني عيني، فرأيت النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم في النوم فقال: يا عُتْبى، الحقْ الأعرابيّ فبشره أن الله قد غفر له

The Hikayat Ibn Kathir RA quoted after that tafsir which brother Muhammad Bahauddin mentioned is that... Al-`Utbi said: "As I was sitting by the grave of the Prophet, a Beduin Arab came and said: "Peace be upon you, O Messenger of Allah! I have heard Allah saying: "If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful" (Quran 4:64), so I have come to you asking forgiveness for my sin, seeking your intercession with my Lord." [Then he began to recite poetry] Then he left, and I dozed and saw the Prophet in my sleep. He said to me: "O `Utbi, run after the Beduin and give him glad tidings that Allah has forgiven him."...


So Ibn Kathir RA is clearly mentioning this hikayat of A'rabi to show the permissibility of Tawassul. By the way there is another interesting point in this narration... hope some learned fellows will pick it by themselves

For the brother who complained about the incomplete Tafsir Ibn Kathir... here is the complete version in Arabic...

http://www.qurancomplex.org/Quran/ta...b&nAya=64#4_64

There are four other tafasir too on this link, all accessible online and very convenient to search as well. The other four tafaseer are Tabri or Tibri (I am not sure), Sa'di, Baghavi, Meiser


Wassalam

Click Here To Know About Tawassul...what is tawassul and to what extent it is permissible

Also Click Here For More About Tawassul

[Jadeed]

The incident is mentioned in Tafseer of Ibn Katheer...!

1) In the Shafi'i mad'hab's usool al-fiqh, which Ibn Katheer utilized, there is controversy over whether qawl sahabi is a proof. This is the qawl of a drunkard historian over 200 years after hijrah. It is not a proof for any action, nor can it be utilized for that reason; his reference to it as mash-hur is just showing that he's narrating it for the sake of interest and relevance to the verse.
2) The incident is not a Shari'a evidence for anything, for any action whatsoever. That is my point. To say that Ibn Kathir is utilizing it as a proof is pre-supposing that his mad'hab has usool which allows such things.

[faizanakram99]

1) In the Shafi'i mad'hab's usool al-fiqh, which Ibn Katheer utilized, there is controversy over whether qawl sahabi is a proof. This is the qawl of a drunkard historian over 200 years after hijrah. It is not a proof for any action, nor can it be utilized for that reason; his reference to it as mash-hur is just showing that he's narrating it for the sake of interest and relevance to the verse.
2) The incident is not a Shari'a evidence for anything, for any action whatsoever. That is my point. To say that Ibn Kathir is utilizing it as a proof is pre-supposing that his mad'hab has usool which allows such things.

cya insha allah soon...!

[SyedSufi]

I just got back from Madinah, Alhumdulillah.

I made tawassul through the Prophet, because for the time being majority of Ahlus-sunnah permit it and I didn't want to miss out on this chance.

I got to pray in Riyad ul Jannah aswell .

BTW the barelvis take it to a next level, they were praying, but not in direction of Qibla, slightly directed left ( towards blessed grave or RasulAllah) I WAS SHOCKED!! and nobody said anything to them green turbans :P.
I don't know WHAT they were doing. Sajdah is only for Allah swt.

Anyways, RAMADAN KAREEM BROTHERS!

[Dawud Israel]

I am just going through this thread...and getting more confused. There seem to be many definitions of tawassul on here. Can someone give me the various definitions of tawassul people have and the differences people see among them?

[junfrared]

I am just going through this thread...and getting more confused. There seem to be many definitions of tawassul on here. Can someone give me the various definitions of tawassul people have and the differences people see among them?

Get your Deen from Great Ulama, not from internet forum. (e.g. Scholars of Haramin Haramain sharifain),

Here I explained very briefly Tawassul and its types and ruling of each one post # 14