Hamza Yusuf- Tawassul

[Muzzammil Husayn]

And none of the books of hadeeth, like Malik's Muwatta in any narration, nor the books of Sunnah, contain chapters on visiting the grave of the Prophet

This is not accurate. In Imam Muhammad's transmission of Imam Malik's Muwatta', he has a chapter Bab Ziyarat Qabr al-Nabi sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam wa ma yustahabbu min dhalika (Chapter on Visiting the Grave of the Prophet...); in which he narrates from Malik, from 'Abd Allah ibn Dinar from Ibn 'Umar that he would visit the grave of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam) when he wished to travel from Madinah or when he returned from a journey to Madinah, and at the grave he would say salam to him and do du'a. After this, Imam Muhammad al-Shaybani says:

هكذا ينبغي أن يفعل إذا قدم المدينة يأتي قبر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم

"This is what one should do when he arrives at Madinah, attend the grave of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam)."

[Tisatashar]

i have great respect for shaykh nuh and shaykh faraz. They hust have a diff of opinion. They are upright scholars alhumdulillah

A difference of opinion ??

Let's read together (Astughfirullah);

• "O Shaykh `Abd al-Qadir! O Shaykh Ahmad! O Rifa`i! [Give us] something for the sake of Allah (shay'un lillah) O `Abd al-Qadir! and such..."
  
• "O `Abd al-Qadir Gilani look at me (Ya `Abd al-Qadir adrikni)!" and "O Ahmad al-Badawi give us support (Ya Badawi madad)!"

Say:-

• "Yaa Rasulallah al-madad bi Idh-nillah" (pronounce it like -'bi-iz-nillah')
  
• "Ya Gawth al Azam al-Maddat bi-iz-nillah" ( by the persimission of Allah)
  
• "Ya Sayyid Abdal-Qadir Jilani Aa-ghis-sa-nee bi-iz-nillah"
  
• "Ya Sayyid Abdal-Qadir Jilani I plea for your help, make me one of you Murids," (or what ever you need insert your Dua you have or problem in here) …. Then say...
  
• You may Say "O Shaykhs of Qadiri-Noshahi Tariqah, intercede for me and my Dua. I call on you as your Mureed said you are KAREEM"

Perhaps I should wash my mouth and make 2 rakaa' salaat. Interestingly, I, like most muslims, we say in each Fatiha recitation (33 times daily) during our daily prayers of sunnah & fard:

"Iyyaka naAAbudu wa-iyyaka nastaAAeen" 1:5
(You alone we worship and You alone we ask for help.)

Those words from GF Haddad, Rabbani & co up above are more than a difference of opinion my brother. That is beyond a 'difference of opinion'.

Or were my suspicions right long ago, and calling on the dead for help "Ya dead shaykh so & so, give me...." is not considered something evil on this forum?

I unknowingly of the rules posted a little boy making dua for an avatar and rightly so, its deleted as per the law. How is it with ""Ya dead shaykh so & so, give me...." here as far as Islamic law goes?

[AbdurRaheem2]

A difference of opinion ??

Let's read together (Astughfirullah);


Perhaps I should wash my mouth and make 2 rakaa' salaat. Interestingly, I, like most muslims, we say in each Fatiha recitation (33 times daily) during our daily prayers of sunnah & fard:

"Iyyaka naAAbudu wa-iyyaka nastaAAeen" 1:5
(You alone we worship and You alone we ask for help.)

Those words from GF Haddad, Rabbani & co up above are more than a difference of opinion my brother. That is beyond a 'difference of opinion'.

Or were my suspicions right long ago, and calling on the dead for help "Ya dead shaykh so & so, give me...." is not considered something evil on this forum?

I unknowingly of the rules posted a little boy making dua for an avatar and rightly so, its deleted as per the law. How is it with ""Ya dead shaykh so & so, give me...." here as far as Islamic law goes?

So for you anyone who says that is a mushrik then brother? are these scholars you mention that too?

If that is the case the Muslim Ummah has just shrunk by 50% or more, so I hope it isn't.

Most people on here are Deobandis, Tablighis, Nadwis etc, do you think they do this or say it is permissible?

If you know anything about them then you know they do not, so why are you saying these things?

[Abu Zakariya Yahya]

So for you anyone who says that is a mushrik then brother? are these scholars you mention that too?

If that is the case the Muslim Ummah has just shrunk by 50% or more, so I hope it isn't.

Most people on here are Deobandis, Tablighis, Nadwis etc, do you think they do this or say it is permissible?

If you know anything about them then you know they do not, so why are you saying these things?

Why would you care if the Muslim Ummah shrunk or not, does that determine if your going to Jannah or not?

[Jadeed]

This is not accurate. In Imam Muhammad's transmission of Imam Malik's Muwatta', he has a chapter Bab Ziyarat Qabr al-Nabi sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam wa ma yustahabbu min dhalika (Chapter on Visiting the Grave of the Prophet...); in which he narrates from Malik, from 'Abd Allah ibn Dinar from Ibn 'Umar that he would visit the grave of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam) when he wished to travel from Madinah or when he returned from a journey to Madinah, and at the grave he would say salam to him and do du'a. After this, Imam Muhammad al-Shaybani says:

هكذا ينبغي أن يفعل إذا قدم المدينة يأتي قبر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم

"This is what one should do when he arrives at Madinah, attend the grave of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam)."

for the correction. I amend my statement forthwith. A better statement is: there is no book with a chapter or narration or anything on the desirability of tawassul with the Prophet nor asking him for his intercession.

I have never yet seen a citation or narration proving the purported ijmaa' on permissibility from the early generations.

[AbdurRaheem2]

Why would you care if the Muslim Ummah shrunk or not, does that determine if your going to Jannah or not?

I would be sad if these scholars you mention and their followers were mushriks like you apparently think they are.

Don't you think it is sad if people who in every way are following Islam and look like Muslims, who do the five pillars, memrize the Quran abstain from haram, but because they believe scholars on this one issue and make this one mistake they are lost, forever?

[Abu Zakariya Yahya]

I would be sad if these scholars you mention and their followers were mushriks like you apparently think they are.

Don't you think it is sad if people who in every way are following Islam and look like Muslims, who do the five pillars, memrize the Quran abstain from haram, but because they believe scholars on this one issue and make this one mistake they are lost, forever?

When did I apparently say anything about anyone being a Mushrik?

I simply asked you a question, whether or not it matters if the Ummah shrinks or grows?

The Shia also commit kufr, are you going to say... well I'm said that the Ummah shrunk because of them leaving Islam?

[AbdurRaheem2]

When did I apparently say anything about anyone being a Mushrik?

I simply asked you a question, whether or not it matters if the Ummah shrinks or grows?

The Shia also commit kufr, are you going to say... well I'm said that the Ummah shrunk because of them leaving Islam?

lol sorry brother I am in UK it is early morning here and my eyes and brain are tired, I didn't notice it was you I thought it was still tisatashar I was speaking to.

as for your question it is good to have a big Ummah for lots of reasons, especially if it sticks together under an Amir.

as for the Rafidites, no I have no feelings for them, it is the Sunnis who ask from other than Allah thinking that it is permitted that I worry about. if they are on shirk, don't you feel sorry for them?

[junfrared]

And none of the books of hadeeth, like Malik's Muwatta in any narration, nor the books of Sunnah, contain chapters on visiting the grave of the Prophet and asking him for intercession or making tawassul through him

This is not accurate. In Imam Muhammad's transmission of Imam Malik's Muwatta', he has a chapter Bab Ziyarat Qabr al-Nabi sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam wa ma yustahabbu min dhalika (Chapter on Visiting the Grave of the Prophet...); in which he narrates from Malik, from 'Abd Allah ibn Dinar from Ibn 'Umar that he would visit the grave of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam) when he wished to travel from Madinah or when he returned from a journey to Madinah, and at the grave he would say salam to him and do du'a. After this, Imam Muhammad al-Shaybani says:

هكذا ينبغي أن يفعل إذا قدم المدينة يأتي قبر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم

"This is what one should do when he arrives at Madinah, attend the grave of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam)."

Dear Muzzammil Husayn, Don't misquote the people to establish your ideas.

[abdulwahhab]

And none of the books of hadeeth, like Malik's Muwatta in any narration, nor the books of Sunnah, contain chapters on visiting the grave of the Prophet and asking him for intercession or making tawassul through him

Dear Muzzammil Husayn, Don't misquote the people to establish your ideas.

Dear junfrared, do follow the thread carefully before making accusations. Brother Jadeed changed his post to what you've quoted him as it did not contain the part that you've bolded.

for the correction. I amend my statement forthwith. A better statement is: there is no book with a chapter or narration or anything on the desirability of tawassul with the Prophet nor asking him for his intercession.

I have never yet seen a citation or narration proving the purported ijmaa' on permissibility from the early generations.