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Thread: Excellent Website Defending the 'Aqida of Ahlus Sunnah

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    Default Re: Excellent Website Defending the 'Aqida of Ahlus Sunnah

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunni Muslim View Post
    Qadri - you need to tell us why you think Ibn al Jawzi believed in Aynayn - and why you failed to acknowledge his rejection in his Daff and Akhbar al-Sifat. That was the main aim of the original PDF against you.
    so are you Abul Hasan Hussain Ahmed ? your tone and adab, mashallah over the years you are improving in your manners and islamic etiquettes. why so much anger and hatred ? you need few anger management classes. You failed to tell the readers why Ibn Jawzi was rejected by his Hanabila contemporaries and you also failed to tell the readers the opinions of scholars on him. This is the usual deception played by people to try to attack Athari Salafi creed and this is usual from Dr. Abul Hasan Hussain Ahmed. In case you missed this then here it is again for you

    Adh-Dhahabee states, ‘woe to him, if only he had not delved into ta’weel and thereby opposed his Imaam’ [‘Siyar’ (2/368)] [taking to note he was shafi'ee]

    And he said also, adding to the saying of Abdul Lateef (Abdul-Lateef Ibn Abdur-Rahman ali-Shaykh) about him, ‘and there were many mistakes in what he wrote, for indeed he used to finish a book and not give it any consideration’, ‘I say: due to this he had many misinterpretations and different shades of neglecting examination. And he gained knowledge from writings...’

    Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali said about him, ‘a group of the scholars of our companions took a stand against him for his inclination towards ta’weel in his speech. And their rejection (of him) was severe in that. And their is no doubt that his speech in that (i.e. ta’weel) was confused and contradicting. So if he was cognisant of the ahaadeeth or narrations he would not consider lawful the doubts of the Mutakallimeen (People of Theological Rhetoric) and expose their corruptions. And he used to exalt Abu Wafaa ibn Aqueel and follow him in most of what he found in his words - although he refuted him in some points - and ibn Aqueel was skilled in philosophy but he was not well acquainted with Hadeeth and narration. And this is why ibn Aqueel was shaky/confused in this topic...and Abul Farj followed him in this hue (talawwun)’

    Ibn Qudaama al-Maqdisi said, ‘ibn al-Jawzee was the Imaam of his time except that we are not pleased with his writings on the Sunnah (in this context to mean belief/tawheed) nor his methodology in them’ [‘Dhail Tabaqaat al-Hanaabila’ (1/415)]

    we shall mention here sections from a letter which the Shaykh, the Ascetic and Example, Ishaaq bin Ahmad al-Ulthee sent to his contemporary Ibn al-Jawzee, ‘....and know that much rejection has occurred against you from the scholars and noble personalities, and outstanding people from distant lands, due to your corrupt stands....and they have ruled that you are in need of advice, for you have statements which do not befit the Sunnah which time does not allow to mention…then you objected to the Attributes of the Creator as if they (objections?) arose not from a heart which has the respect of the Exalted, the Great or a heart filled with fear and exaltation, rather from the occurrences of the glittering false souls. And you have claimed that a group of Ahlus Sunnah and noble personalities received your letters but did not understand them - and how far removed are they from this - rather they have controlled their mouths and tongues. Not due to disability - and all praise is due to Allaah - in debating and opposing, and neither..’ [‘Dhail Tabaqaat al-Hanaabilaa’ (2/209-211) for the full letter which goes on to refute ibn al-Jawzee in some detail.]" [‘Rudood wat Ta’qubaat alaa maa Waqa’a lil Imaam Nawawee fee Sharhi Saheeh Muslim min at-Ta’weel fee Sifaat’ (pp.97+)
    What is the reliability of Ibn Jawzi - that you accept his Daff and Akhbar al-Sifat but reject Ibn Jawzi's harsh criticism of Sufis like al-Ghazali and also his attacks on Abul Hasan al-Ashari ? Just because Daf and Akhbar al-Sifat goes in line with your creed you promote it and what goes against your creed you reject it ? How did you come to this selective acceptance and rejection while the Imams of Jarh wa Tadil like Dhahabi ( i don't know if you consider Dhahabi reliable enough since you made ridiculous comments without any supporting evidence against him just like Ahbash. have you become habashi )



    So, if Ibn Rajab left the way of Ibn Taymiyyah then why did he write against the creed of Ibn Jawzi and what they saw problematic with the creed of Ibn Jawzi ?

    Bismillahi al-Rahman al-Rahim,

    The following is from Dhayl Tabaqat al-Hanabilah, the biographical dictionary of Hanbalis, compiled by the Imam and Hafidh Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali (d.795), rahimahullah.

    He wrote the following, as a warning and advise, for following generations on the Hanbalite scholar Abu'l-Faraj Ibn al-Jawziy (d.597), rahimahullah, in two biographical lemma's:

    - that of Ibn al-Jawziy himself, and

    - that of Abu'l-Fadl al-'Althi (d.634).

    Abu’l-Faraj Ibn al-Jawziy according to the ‘Ulama of the Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jama’ah (from Dhayl Tabaqat al-Hanabilah by Ibn Rajab):

    كثرة أغلاطه في تصانيفه. وعذره في هذا واضح، وهو أنه كان مكثرًا من
    التصانيف، فيصنف الكتاب ولا يعتبره، بل يشتغل بغيره. وربما كتب في الوقت الواحد من تصانيف عديدة. ولولا ذلك لم يجتمع له هذه المصنفات الكثيرة. ومع هذا فكان تصنيفه في فنون من العلوم بمنزلة الاختصار من كتب في تلك العلوم، فينقل من التصانيف من غير أن يكون متقنًا لذلك العلم منا جهة الشيوخ والبحث، ولهذا نقل عنه أنه قال: أنا مُرتب، ولست بمصنف.
    ومنها: ما يوجد في كلامه من الثناء، والترفع والتعاظم، كثرة الدعاوى. ولا ريب أنه كان عنده من ذلك طرف، والله يسامحه.
    ومنها- وهو الذي من أجله نقم جماعة من مشايخ أصحابنا وأئمتهم من المقادسة والعلثيين- من ميله إلى التأويل في بعض كلامه، واشتد نكرهم عليه في ذلك. ولا ريب أن كلامه في ذلك مضطرب مختلف، وهو وإن كان مطلعًا على الأحاديث والآثار في هذا الباب، فلم يكن خبيرًا بحل شبهة المتكلمين، وبيان فِسادها. وكان معظمًا لأبي الوفاء بن عقيل يتابعه في أكثر ما يجد في كلامه وإن كان قد ورد عليه في بعض المسائل. وكان ابن عقيل بارعًا في الكلام، ولم يكن تام الخبرة بالحديث والآثار. فلهذا يضطرب في هذا الباب، وتتلون فيه آراؤه. وأبو الفرج تابع له في هذا التلون.
    قال الشيخ موفق الدين المقدسي: كان ابن الجوزي إمام أهل عصره في الوعظ، وصنف في فنون العلم تصانيف حسنة. وكان صاحب قبول. وكان يدرس الفقه ويصنف فيه. وكان حافظًا للحديث. وصنف فيه، إلا أننا لم نرض تصانيفه في السنة، ولا طريقته فيها. انتهى.

    (see what Ibn Taymiyyah says about the number of his works - which explains part of the mistakes he has: see also 'The Difference of the Early Ash'arites & Later Ones' in this forum)

    قال الإمام أبو العباس ابن تيمية في أجوبته المصرية: كان الشيخ أبو الفرج مفتيًا كثير التصنيف والتأليف. وله مصنفات في أمور كثيرة، حتى عددتها فرأيتها أكثر من ألف مصنف. ورأيت بعد ذلك له ما لم أره.

    (This is the full biography of Abu'l-Fadl al-'Althi with the famous Letter he send to Ibn al-Jawziy - it has been translated some time ago with a new ms of Daf' Shubah Tashbih in a enlarged version)

    إسحاق بن أحمد بن محمد بن غانم العلثي، الزاهد القدوة، أبو الفضل، ويقال: أبو محمد ابن عم طلحة بن المظفر: الني سبق ذكوه. سمع من أبي الفتح بن شاتيل وقرأ بنمْسة على ابن كليب وابن الأخضر. وكان قدوة صالحاً زاهداً، فقيهاً عالماً، أمَاراً بالمعروف، نهاء عن المنكر، لا يخاف أحداً إلا الله، ولا تأخذه في الله لومة لائم. أنكر على الخليفة الناصر فمن دونه وواجه الخليفة الناصر وصدعه بالحق.
    قال ناصح الدين بن الحنبلي- وقرأته بخطه- هو اليوم شيخ العراق، والقائم بالإنكار على الفقهاء والفقراء وغيرهم فيما ترخصوا فيه.
    وقال المنذري: قيل: إنه لم يكن في زمانه أكثر إنكاراً للمنكر منه، وحبس على ذلك مدة.
    قلت: وله رسائل كثيرة إلى الأعيان بالإِنكار عليهم والنصح لهم. ورأيت بخطه كتاباً أرسله إلى الخليفة ببغداد. وأرسل أيضاً إلى الشيخ علي بن إدريس الزاهد- صاحب الشيخ عبد القادر- رسالة طويلة، تتضمن إنكار الرقص والسماع والمبالغة في ذلك.
    وله في معنى ذلك عدة رسائل إلى غير واحد.
    وأرسل رسالة طويلة إلى الشيخ أبي الفرج بن الجوزي بالإنكار عليه فيما يقع في كلامه من الميل إلى أهل التأويل يقول فيها:
    (The Letter begins here

    من عبيد الله إسحاق بن أحمد بن محمد بن غانم العلثي، إلى عبد الرحمن بن الجوزي، حمانا الله وإياه من الاستكبار عن قبول النصائح، ووفقنا وإياه لاتباع السلف الصالح، وبصرنا بالستة السنية، ولا حرمنا الاهتداء باللفظات النبوية، وأعاذنا من الابتداع من الشريعة المحمدية. فلا حاجة إلى ذلك. فقد تركنا على بيضاء نقية، وأكمل الله لنا الدين، وأغنانا عن آراء المتنطعين، ففي كتاب الله وسنة رسوله مقنع لكل من رغب أو رهب، ورزقنا الله الاعتقاد السليم، ولا حرمنا التوفيق، فإذا حرمه العبد لم ينفع التعليم. وعرفنا أقدار نفوسنا، وهدانا الصراط المستقيم. ولا حول ولا قوة إلا بالله العلي العظيم، وفوق كل في علم عليم. وبعد حمد الله سبحانه، والصلاة على رسوله: فلا يخفى أن لا الدين النصيحة، خصوصاً للمولى الكريم، والرب الرحيم. فكم قد زل قلم، وعثر قدم، وزلق متكلم، ولا يحيطون به علماً. قال: عز من قائل "22: 8"، "ومِنَ الناس من يُجادلُ في الله بغير عِلْم وَلا هُدىً وَلا كتابٍ مُنير".
    وأنت يا عبد الرحمن، فما يزال يبلغ عنك ويسمع منك، ويشاهد في كتبك المسموعة عليك، تذكر كثيراً ممن كان قبلك من العلماء بالخطأ، اعتقاداً منك: أنك تصدع بالحق من غير محاباة، ولا بد من الجريان في ميدان النصح: إما لتنتفع إن هداك الله، وإما لتركيب حجة الله عليك. ويحذر الناس قولك الفاسد، ولا يغرك كثرة اطلاعك على العلوم. فرب مبلَّغ أوعى من سامع، ورب حامل فقه لا فقه له، ورب بحر كَدر ونهر صاف، فلستَ بأعلمِ من الرسول، حيث قال له الإمام عمر: "أتصلي على ابن أبي? أنزل القرآن "وَلا تصلِّ عَلى أَحَدٍ مِنْهمْ" ولو كان لا ينكر من قل علمه على من كثر علمه إذاً لتعطل الأمر بالمعروف، وصرنا كبني إسرائيل حيث قال تعالى: "كانوُا لاَ يَتَنَاهُوْنَ عَنْ مُنكَرٍ فَعَلُوهُ". "المائدة: 134"، بل ينكر المفضول على الفاضل وينكر الفاجر على الولي، على تقدير معرفة الولي. وإلا فابن التنقا ليطلب وابن السمندل، ليجلب- إلى أن قال: واعلم أنه قد كثر النكير عليك من العلماء والفضلاء، والأخيار في الآفاق بمقالتك الفاسدة في الصفات. وقد أبانوا وَهاءَ مقالتك، وحكوا عنك أنك أبيت النصيحة، فعندك من الأقوال التي لا تليق بالسنة ما يضيق الوقت عن ذكرها، فذُكر عنك: أنك ذكرت في الملائكة المقربين، الكرام الكاتبين، فصلاً زعمت أنه مواعظ، وهو تشقيق وتفهيق، وتكلف بشع، خلا أحاديث رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ، وكلام السلف الصالح الذي لا يخالف سنة، فعمدت وجعلتها مناظرة معهم. فمن أذن لك في ذلك. وهم مستغفرون للذين آمنوا، ولا يستكبرون عن عبادة الله. وقد قرن شهادته بشهادتهم قبل أولى العلم وما علينا كان الآدمي أفضل منهم أم لا، فتلك مسألة أخرى.
    فشرعت تقول: إذا ثارت نار الحسد فمن يطفيها? وفي الغيبة ما فيها، مع كلام غث.
    أليس منا فلان? ومنا فلان? ومنا الأنبياء والأولياء من فعل هذا من السلف قبلك? ولو قال لك قائل من الملائكة: أليس منكم فرعون وهامان? أليس منكم من ادعى الربوبية? فعمن أخذت هذه الأقوال المحدثة، والعبارات المزوقة، التي لا طائل تحتها وقد شغلت بها الناس عن الاشتغال بالعلم النافع أحدُهم قد أنسى القرآن وهو يعيد فضل الملائكة ومناظرتهم، ويتكلم به في الآَفاق.
    فأين الوعظ والتذكير من هذه الأقوال الشنيعة البشعة.
    ثم تعرضت لصفات الخالق تعالى، كأنها صدرت لا من صدر سكن فيه احتشام العلي العظيم، ولا أملاها قلب مليء بالهيبة والتعظيم، بل من واقعات النفوس البهرجية الزيوف. وزعمت أن طائفة من أهل السنة والأخيار تلقوها وما فهموا. وحاشاهم من ذلك. بل كفوا عن الثرثرة والتشدق، لا عجزاً- بحمد الله- عن الجدال والخصام، ولا جهلاً بطرق الكلام. وإنما أمسكوا عن الخوض في ذلك عن علم ودراية، لا عن جهل وعماية.
    والعجب ممن ينتحل مذهب السلف، ولا يرى الخوض في الكلام. ثم يقدم على تفسير ما لم يره أولاً، ويقول: إذا قلنا كذا أدى إلى كذا، ويقيس ما ثبت من صفات الخالق على ما لم يثبت عنده. فهذا الذي نهيتُ عنه. وكيف تنقص عهدك وقولك بقول فلان وفلان من المتأخرين? فلا تشمت بنا المبتدعة فيقولون: تنسبوننا إلى البدع وأنتم أكثر بدعاً منا، أفلا تنظرون إلى قول من اعتقدتم سلامة عقده، وتثبتون معرفته وفضله. كيف أقول ما لم يقل، فكيف يجوز أن تتبع المتكلمين في آرائهم، وتخوض مع الخائضين فيما خاضوا فيه، ثم تنكر عليهم. هذا من العجب العجيب. ولو أن مخلوقاً وصف مخلوقاً مثله بصفات من غير رؤية ولا خبر صادق. لكان كاذباً في إخباره. فكيف تصفون الله سبحانه بشيء ما وقفتم على صحته، بل بالظنون والواقعات، وتنفون الصفات التي رضيها لنفسه، وأخبر بها رسوله بنقل الثقات الأثبات، يحتمل، ويحتمل.
    ثم لك في الكتاب الني أسميته "الكشف لمشكل الصحيحين" مقالات عجيبة، تارة تحكيها عن الخطابي وغيره من المتأخرين، أطلع هؤلاء على الغيب. وأنتم تقولون: لا يجوز التقليد في هذا، ثم ذكره فلان، ذكره ابن عقيل، فنريد الدليل من الذاكر أيضاً، فهو مجرد دعوى، وليس الكلام في الله وصفاته بالهين ليلقى إلى مجاري الظنون- إلى أن قال: إذا أردت: كان ابن عقيل العالم، وإذا أردت: صار لا يفهم، أوهيت مقالته لما أردت. ثم قال: وذكرت الكلام المحدث على الحديث، ثم قلت: والذي يقع لي. فبهذا تقدم على الله، وتقول: قال علماؤنا، والذي يقع لي. تتكلمون في الله عز وجل بواقعاتكم تخبرون عن صفاته. ثم ما كفاك حتى قلت: هذا من تحريف بعض الرواة. تحكماً من غير دليل. وما رويت عن ثقة آخر أنه قال: قد غيره الراوي فلا ينبغي بالرواة العدولِ: أنهم حرفوا، ولو جوزتم لهم الرواية بالمعنى، فهم أقرب إلى الإصابة منكم. وأهل البدع إذاً كلما رويتم حديثاً ينفرون منه، يقولون: يحتمل أنه من تغيير بعض الرواة. فإذا كان المذكور في الصحيح المنقول من تحريف بعض الرواة، فقولكم ورأيكم في هذا يحتمل أنه من رأى بعض الغواة.
    وتقول: قد انزعج الخطابي لهذه الألفاظ. فما الذي أزعجه دون غيره? ونراك تبني شيئاً ثم تنقضه، وتقول: قد قال فلان وفلان، وتنسب ذلك إلى إمامنا أحمد- رضي الله عنه- ومذهبه معروف في السكوت عن مثل هذا، ولا يفسره، بل صحح الحديث، ومن من تأويله.
    وكثير ممن أخذ عنك العلم إذا رجع إلى بيته علم بما في عَيبته من العيب، وذم مقالتك وأبطلها. وقد سمعنا عنك ذلك من أعيان أصحابك المحبوبين عندك، الذين مدحتهم بالعلم، ولا غرض لهم فيك، بل أدوا النصيحة إلي عباد الله، ولك القول وضده منصوران. وكل ذلك بناء على الواقعات والخواطر.
    وتدعي أن الأصحاب خلطوا في الصفات، فقد قبحت أكثر منهم، وما وسعتك السنة. فاتق الله سبحانه. ولا تتكلم فيه برأيك فهذا خبر غيب، لا يسمع إلا من الرسول المعصوم، فقد نصبتم حرباً للأحاديث الصحيحة. والذين نقلوها نقلوا شرائع الإسلام.
    ثم لك قصيدة مسموعة عليك في سائر الآفاق، اعتقدها قوم، وماتوا بخلاف اعتقادك الآن فيما يبلغ عنك، وسمع منك منها:
    ولو رأيت النار هبت، فعـدت

    تحرق أهل البغي والـعـنـاد
    وكلما ألقى فيهـا حـطـمـت

    وأهلكته، وهـي فـي ازدياد
    فيضع الجبار فـيهـا قـدمـاً

    جلت عن التشبيه بالأجـسـاد
    فتنزوي من هيبته، وتمـتـلـي

    فلو سمعت صوتـهـا ينـادي
    حسبي حسبي، قد كفاني ما أرى

    من هيبة أذهـبـت اشـتـداد
    فاحذر مقال مبتدع في قـولـه

    يروم تـأويلاً بـكـل واعـي
    فكيف هذه الأقوال: وما معناها? فإنا نخاف أن تحدث لنا قولاً ثالثاً، فيذهب الاعتقاد الأول باطلاً. لقد آذيت عباد الله وأضللتهم، وصار شغلك نقل الأقوال فحسب، وابن عقيل سامحه الله، قد حكى عنه: أنه تاب بمحضر من علماء وقته من مثل هذه الأقوال، بمدينة السلام- عمرها الله بالإسلام والسنة- فهو بريء- على هذا التقدير- مما يوجد بخطه، أو ينسب إليه، من التأويلات، والأقوال المخالفة للكتاب والسنة.
    وأنا وافدة الناس والعلماء والحفاظ إليك، فإما أن تنتهي عن هذه المقالات، وتتوب التوبة النصوح، كما تاب غيرك، وإلا كشفوا للناس أمرك، وسيروا ذلك في البلاد وبينوا وجه الأقوال الغثة، وهذا أمر تُشُوِر فيه، وقضى بليل، والأرض لا تخلو من قائم للّه ججة، والجرح لا شك مقدم على التعديل، والله على ما نقول وكيل، وقد أعفر من أنذر.
    وإذا تأولت الصفات على اللغة، وسوغته لنفسك، وأبيت النصيحة، فليس هو مذهب الإمام الكبير أحمد بن حنبل قدس الله روحه، فلا يمكنك الانتساب إليه بهذا، فاختر لنفسك مذهباً، إن مكنت من ذلك، وما زال أصحابنا يجهرون بصريح الحق في كل وقت ولو ضُربوا بالسيوف، لا يخافون في الله لومة لائم، ولا يبالون بشناعة مشنع، ولا كذب كاذب، ولهم من الاسم العذب الهني، وتركهم الدنيا وإعراضهم عنها اشتغالاً بالآخرة: ما هو معلوم معروف.
    ولقد سودت وجوهنا بمقالتك الفاسدة، وانفرادك بنفسك، كأنك جبار من الجبابرة، ولا كرامة لك ولا نعمى، ولا نمكنك من الجهر بمخالفة السنة، ولو استقبل من الرأي ما استدبر: لم يحك عنك كلام في السهل، ولا في الجبل، ولكن قدر الله، وما شاء فعل، بيننا وبينك كتاب الله وسنة رسوله، قال الله تعالى: "فإنْ تَنَازَعْتُم فِي شَيْءً فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى الله وَالرَّسُول" ولم يقل: إلى ابن الجوزي.
    وترى كل من أنكر عليك نسبته إلى الجهل، ففضل الله أُوتيته وحدك? وإذا جَهَّلت الناس فمن يشهد لك أنك عالم? ومن أجهل منك، حيث لا تصغي إلى نصيحة ناصح? وتقول: من كان فلان، ومن كان فلان. من الأئمة الذين وصل العلم إليك عنهم، من أنت إذاً? فلقد استراح من خاف مقام ربه، وأحجم عن الخوض فيما لا يعلم، لئلا يندم.
    فانتبه يا مسكين قبل الممات، وحَسِّن القول والعمل، فقد قرب الأجل، للّه الأمر من قبل ومن بعد، ولا حول ولا قوة إلا بالله العلي العظيم.

    (The End of the Letter)

    وللشيخ إسحاق أجزاء مجموعهْ، وأربعينيات حديثية، وغير ذلك، وحدث وسمع منه جماعة.
    وذكر ابن الدواليبي: أنه سمع منه.
    وتوفى في شهر ربيع الأول، سنة أربع وثلاثين وستمائة، أظنه بالعلث. رضي الله عنه.
    What follow are selections of the contents of the Letter al-'Althi send to Abu'l-Faraj Ibn al-Jawziy. The letter, see above, has been reported by the Imam of the Hanabilah, the Hafidh Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali, in the Dhayl Tabaqat al-Hanabilah.

    In it al-'Althi critizes Ibn al-Jawziy vehemently for innovative stance in matters of 'Aqidah, such as:

    -his preoccupiation with Kalam and Ta'wil on the Attributes of Allah with no proof whatsoever

    -his criticism and attitude towards the Salaf and their followers, in particular his fellow colleagues - the Hanbalis

    -his incompetence in the science of Hadith - such as his unauthorized criticism of authentic traditions and incorrect transmission and preservation of texts

    al-'Althi was not the first nor the last who critisized him as such; Muwaffaq al-Din al-Maqdisi, Taqi al-Din Ibn Taymiyyah and al-Dhahabi made similar charges. We've mentioned some of their sayings - and left others.

    Particular significant of the quotes below is the longest. In it, al-'Althi advocates with the power of his Madhhab against Ibn al-Jawziy's innovative stances - disassociating Imam Ahmad b. Hanbal and his followers from the Bid'ah of Ta'wil and Kalam. These words give the reader clear evidence that what Ibn al-Jawziy advocated was an isolated opinion - a mistake on his part. Whoever, especially today's innovators, follows Ibn al-Jawziy in this, then he's wrong and misleading the Muslims (as Ibn al-Jawziy mislead them by mistake). Thus, I've seen in the website 'Hanbali Text Society' that the moderator(s) there have claimed for Abu'l-Faraj Ibn al-Jawziy the degree of (what they named) 'senior theologian of high standing' and 'the Shaikh al-Islam of the Hanbalis in creed' - on what basis in God's Name?! It is truly incredible how people - intentionally - turn things around.

    The real Shaykh al-Islam in 'Aqidah of the Hanbali Madhhab is, according to my humble opinion, Taqi al-Din Ahmad b. Abd al-Halim b. Taymiyyah, rahimahullah - volumes of dogmatic writings has he left us, relied upon by Ibn al-Qayyim, Ibn Rajab up to al-Saffarini. And the contemporary Shaykh al-Islam of Ibn al-Jawziy is: Muwaffaq al-Din Ibn Qudamah al-Maqdisi, who said - and it is a Nasiha for you my brothers in Islam!:

    "I bid you, my brothers, may Allah guide you rightly!, to adhere to the Book of your Lord and to the Sunnah of your Prophet, to hold fast thereto, and to avoid all innovations. For every innovation is a heretical innovation, and every heretical innovation is an error. Do not allow yourselves to be deceived by the discourse of a person who will turn you away from the orthodox path which you have been following, no matter who he may be. For he is incapable of adding anything to that which has been said by your Prophet, or by his worthy Companions or by your Imam, Imam al-Sunnah by Idjma, Abu Abdallah Ahmad b. Muhammd b. Hanbal, or by the Imams who were his contemporaries or his predecessors. You have already heard, and we have already mentioned to you, some of the doctrines which they followed and some of their counsels; do not deviate therefrom through the doctrine of someone, though you may think him to be a great Imam."

    (Taken from Tahrim al-Nazar/Radd 'ala Ibn 'Aqil - a work written by Ibn Qudamah as a warning to fellow Hanbalis not to get deceived by the writings and opinions of Abu'l-Wafa Ibn 'Aqil; and who relied, supported and forwarded more then any other man on his writings other then 'Allama Ibn al-Jawziy? Truly, I say: Ibn Qudamah wrote this "Radd 'ala Ibn 'Aqil" against Ibn al-Jawziy and his likes, as can be indicated by evidence above and by the statements of others. May Allah pardon Ibn al-Jawziy, rahimahullah)

    The Hanbali Abu'l-Fadl al-'Althi writes [to his colleague Ibn al-Jawziy]:

    واعلم أنه قد كثر النكير عليك من العلماء والفضلاء، والأخيار في الآفاق بمقالتك الفاسدة في الصفات

    "Know that Scholars and Noble men in various lands have critisized you much, because of your perverse sayings regarding the Attributes (al-Sifat)!"

    فعمن أخذت هذه الأقوال المحدثة، والعبارات المزوقة، التي لا طائل تحتها وقد شغلت بها الناس عن الاشتغال بالعلم النافع

    "From where did you get these innovated sayings and embellished expressions?! They serve no purpose whatever and they divert the people from beneficial knowledge."

    ثم تعرضت لصفات الخالق تعالى، كأنها صدرت لا من صدر سكن فيه احتشام العلي العظيم، ولا أملاها قلب مليء بالهيبة والتعظيم، بل من واقعات النفوس البهرجية الزيوف

    "You then took up [the question] of the Attributes of the Creator, ta'ala, [and interpreted them] which seems to spring from a heart in which there is no reticence, reverence, or awe for the Almighty.."

    فكيف يجوز أن تتبع المتكلمين في آرائهم، وتخوض مع الخائضين فيما خاضوا فيه، ثم تنكر عليهم. هذا من العجب العجيب

    "How is it possible that you follow the opinions of the speculative theologians and join with those who delve into such matters and then turn around and censure them? This is truly incredible!"

    وتدعي أن الأصحاب خلطوا في الصفات، فقد قبحت أكثر منهم، وما وسعتك السنة. فاتق الله سبحانه. ولا تتكلم فيه برأيك فهذا خبر غيب، لا يسمع إلا من الرسول المعصوم، فقد نصبتم حرباً للأحاديث الصحيحة. والذين نقلوها نقلوا شرائع الإسلام

    "And you maintain that the Companions [of the Prophet] were confused on [the question of] the Attributes, but you are more deserving of censure than they! Clearly the Sunnah does not suffice you. Fear Allah, subhana-hu! And do not speculate on Him on the basis of your own opinion, for they (i.e. these matters of the Attributes and such) pertain to the reports of the unseen. None receive such only the infallible Messenger [of Allah]. You, however, have declared war on the sound Traditions. Those who transmit them, in fact, have transmitted the laws of Islam!"


    لقد آذيت عباد الله وأضللتهم،

    "Indeed, you have done harm to the servants of Allah (i.e. the general Muslims) and have led them astray!"

    وإذا تأولت الصفات على اللغة، وسوغته لنفسك، وأبيت النصيحة، فليس هو مذهب الإمام الكبير أحمد بن حنبل قدس الله روحه، فلا يمكنك الانتساب إليه بهذا، فاختر لنفسك مذهباً، إن مكنت من ذلك، وما زال أصحابنا يجهرون بصريح الحق في كل وقت ولو ضُربوا بالسيوف، لا يخافون في الله لومة لائم، ولا يبالون بشناعة مشنع، ولا كذب كاذب، ولهم من الاسم العذب الهني، وتركهم الدنيا وإعراضهم عنها اشتغالاً بالآخرة: ما هو معلوم معروف.

    "When you interpret the Attributes [of Allah] on the basis of language [by way of metaphors and such], then rationalize in you own mind and refuse to accept the counsel of others given in good faith, this [you should know] is not the Madhhab of the Imam al-Kabir Ahmad Ibn Hanbal - may Allah sanctify his soul! You can not attribute such things as this to him. Choose another school if you think you can. My fellows (Hanbalis) will continue to speak the unvarnished truth in every time even if they are slain by swords! They do not fear the censure of their opponents because of [their faith in] Allah, nor are they troubled by the vilification of slanderers or the lies of liars, for they have an agreeable and wholesome reputation. Their renunciation of this world and their aversion for it - preoccupied as they are with the hereafter - are well-known!"
    here is what Ibn Jawzi says about Abul Hasan al-Ashari

    Sayd al-Khatir of Ibn Jawzi how he rebukes Abul Hasan Ash'ari:
    quote:

    و هذا أمر مستقر لم يختلف فيه أحد من القدماء في زمن الرسول صلى الله عليه و سلم و الصحابة رضوان الله عليهم ، ثم دس الشيطان دسائس البدع ، فقال قوم : هذا المشار إليه مخلوق ، فثبت الإمام أحمد رحمه الله ثبوتاً لم يثبته غيره على دفع هذا القول ، لئلا يتطرق إلى القرآن ما يمحو بعض تعظيمه في النفوس ، و يخرجه عن الإضافة إلى الله عز وجل .
    و رأى أن إبتداع ما لم يقل فيه لا يجوز إستعماله فقال : كيف أقول ما لم يقل .
    ثم لم يختلف الناس في غير ذلك ، إلى أن نشأ علي بن إسماعيل الأشعري فقال مرة بقول المعتزلة ، ثم عن له فإدعى أن الكلام صفة قائمه بالنفس ، فأوجبت دعواه هذه أن ما عندنا مخلوق .
    و زادت فخبطت العقائد تعالى فما زال أهل البدع يجوبون في تيارها إلى اليوم .
    و الكلام في هذه المسألة مرتب بذكر الحجج و الشبه في كتب الأصول ، فلا أطيل به ههنا ، بل أذكر لك جملة تكفي من أراد الله هداه ،و هو أن الشرع قنع منا بالإيمان جملة ، و بتعظيم الظواهر ، و نهى عن الخوض فيما يتير غبار شبهة ، و لا تقوى على قطع طريقه أقدام الفهم .
    و إذا كان قد نهى عن الخوض في القدر فكيف يجوز الخوض في صفات المقدر
    ؟ . .
    و ما ذاك إلا لأحد الأمرين اللذين ذكرتهما ، إما لخوف إثارة شبهة تزلزل العقائد ، أو لأن قوى البشر تعجز عن إدراك الحقائق .
    sayd al-khatir of Ibn Jawzi al-Hanbali.

    so we ask the same thing to Abul Hasan Hussain Ahmed ( sunni Muslim ?)

    Br Abul Hasan Hussain Ahmed - You need to take a lesson in Jarh and Ta'dil and how History was written for you are a REVISIONIST who is fanatically attached to the Ahl Kalam Way as we know you from many years and previous threads. The likes of Ibn Rajab, Dhahabi, Ibn Qudamah and Al-althii, who were mountains of Ilm compared to those who cannot be even compared to Ibn Jawzi and according to your own personal opinion that Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali was not a Taymiyyan in the end but if was mere baseless assumption made by you based on your hatred of Ibn Taymiyyah which was shown in the other thread. What you need to show to us is that -

    1) They quoted lies against Ibn Jawzi
    or -
    2)They did not verify this was really from Ibn Jawzi
    or
    3) Someone else lied against Ibn Jawzi's creed and they conveyed it without verifying the facts
    or
    4) Ibn Jawzi was not reliable in creed and his attacks on Abul Hasan al-Ashari but only used by you to diss salafis/atharis


    Or else - WE trust the veracity of these Imams and take them as being truthful in conveying the reports they recorded without even rejecting or suspecting them with regard to Ibn Jawzi ( who was rejected in Creed by Hanabila scholar but accepted only by your likes for personal agenda). You are clutching at a strawman argument that has no basis, for centuries have passed after these Imams recorded these points from Ibn Jawzi - but only now we find majhul people like you ( Sunni Muslim calling me majhul while himself hiding behind nick) who have no standing in Hadith or Ta'rikh coming along and trying to disfigure the facts reported by both of them. Like I said, your academic and scholarly level is becoming worse day by day
    Last edited by arqadri; 31-07-2012 at 08:56 PM.
    Abu Turab Ali Rida Qadri - Mujaddadi
    أبو تراب علي رضا - مجددي قادري
    --------------------------------------------
    Sunni Press Website


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  3. #12

    Default Re: Excellent Website Defending the 'Aqida of Ahlus Sunnah

    Still no reply on the 'aynayn issue. Rather, you've done exactly what you always do:

    It seems you'll make as many excuses as possible to keep your inability to respond to anything in an academic manner out of the spotlight. All you can do is make adhominem attacks and change the subject from one thing to another when you are unable to give an answer.
    طلب العلم فريضة على كل مسلم

    “The acquisition of knowledge is a duty incumbent on every muslim”

    http://www.youtube.com/user/StudentOfTheDeen


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  5. #13
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    Default Re: Excellent Website Defending the 'Aqida of Ahlus Sunnah

    Quote Originally Posted by arqadri View Post
    so are you Abul Hasan Hussain Ahmed ? your tone and adab, mashallah over the years you are improving in your manners and islamic etiquettes. why so much anger and hatred ? you need few anger management classes. You failed to tell the readers why Ibn Jawzi was rejected by his Hanabila contemporaries and you also failed to tell the readers the opinions of scholars on him. This is the usual deception played by people to try to attack Athari Salafi creed and this is usual from Dr. Abul Hasan Hussain Ahmed. In case you missed this then here it is again for you



    What is the reliability of Ibn Jawzi - that you accept his Daff and Akhbar al-Sifat but reject Ibn Jawzi's harsh criticism of Sufis like al-Ghazali and also his attacks on Abul Hasan al-Ashari ? Just because Daf and Akhbar al-Sifat goes in line with your creed you promote it and what goes against your creed you reject it ? How did you come to this selective acceptance and rejection while the Imams of Jarh wa Tadil like Dhahabi ( i don't know if you consider Dhahabi reliable enough since you made ridiculous comments without any supporting evidence against him just like Ahbash. have you become habashi )


    YES, I am a student of Shaykh Abul Hasan's since 2006. Anyway, the Shaykh who is now probably the greatest defender of the real Sunni creed in the whole of the UK has already answered your tripe on this issue of the reliability of Imam Ibn al-Jawzi and as usual you are trying to forget that you have been refuted on this point with your selective amnesia. As for al-Dhahabi then he is a Hujja in Jarh wa Ta'dil of narrators and generally reliable as a Muarrikh and as was quoted earlier he is not accepted even by some of his own students (like al-Ala'i and Ibn al Subki) on subtle aqida points and his anti-Ash'ari bias - YOU knew this but once again hoped that the innocent reader would not notice... Really, you are a big distorter of History.

    From the short masterpiece once again:

    http://www.4shared.com/office/ElsxB5...us_qadri_.html
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In the Daff (p. 111-112), Ibn al Jawzi has been previously quoted above as saying:

    “I would also like to make mention that when a group of the fools gained knowledge of this book of mine it did not please them, since they were familiar with the words of their leaders who compared God with His creation. They attempted to defend themselves by saying, ‘This (does not represent) the Madhhab (of Ahmad ibn al-Hanbal). Indeed, it is not your Madhhab, nor the Madhhab of your Shaykhs you have emulated. I have cleared any charges against the Madhhab of Imam Ahmad and from him the false narrations and the raving statements while not opting taqlid (the following of qualified scholarship without knowing the evidences) in what I believe. How could I not discard counterfeit money while I am paying (real) cash?

    The above is identically found in the longer work (Akhbar al-Sifat, Swartz edn, pp. 279-280) as follows:

    When a group of ignorant men learned of this book of mine (alima bi-kitabi) they were not pleased, since they were fond of the views of their anthropomorphist teachers. They responded: ‘(The viewpoint defended in this book) is not in keeping with the teaching of the (Hanbali) school.’ I replied: ‘It is not (in accord with) your views nor with those teachers of yours whom you follow blindly. (In this work) I have held up the teachings of the Imam Ahmad and disassociated it from views falsely ascribed to him, along with irrational prattle, not being one who follows the views or others blindly. How can I ignore such distortions (bahraj) when I find them (so) objectionable? The end of the treatise – God knows best!”

    The above two quotes are naturally based on English translations of the original Arabic words which are more in harmony when comparing both passages from both works in question; hence, it is indisputable that both were penned by Ibn al-Jawzi. If one pays close attention to what Ibn al-Jawzi said in both of these identical quotes, one can clearly decipher the fact that his opponents who claimed to represent the real Way of Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal in doctrine had already seen or read certain passages of one edition of the Akhbar al-Sifat and its abridgement, and even after that, Ibn al Jawzi upheld the contents of both works and dismissed the so called champions of Hanbalite doctrine without naming them specifically. Hence, this is similar to a preemptive dismissal of his opponents who had reacted against him, and as such, Ibn al-Jawzi may have considered it unnecessary to pen any further detailed rebuttals as the contents in his two works were sufficient in his estimation to uphold what he considered to be the true Athari Way of Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal.

    What is pertinent to point out is that the abridged edition known as Daff Shubuh al-Tashbih was transmitted by major Imams of Hadith, indeed, some of them being the foremost of the people of Hadith (Ahlul hadith) in their age, like – al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, his teachers, Zaynud-Din al-Iraqi and Nurud-Din al-Haythami, and Abdullah ibn Salim al-Basri (see below). The Daff has reached us personally via several routes going back to the Hadith Master of his age, al-Hafiz Muhammad Abid al-Sindi al-Madani (d. 1257 AH). The following is an abridged sanad going back Shaykh Abid al-Sindi with his sanad back to al-Hafiz Ibn al Jawzi:


    عن الحافظ محمد عابد السندي
    عن صالح الفلاني المدني
    عن محمد سعيد بن سفر المدني
    عن الشيخ محمد بن عبد الله المغري المدني
    عن عبد الله بن سالم البصري المكي
    عن علي الطبري المكي
    عن عبد الواحد الحصاري
    عن عبد الحق السنباطي
    عن الحافظ ابن حجر العسقلاني
    عن الحافظين أبي الفضل زين الدين العراقي وأبي الحسن نور الدين الهيثمي
    قالا أخبرنا أبو الفضل محمد بن اسماعيل بن عمر الحموي قال
    أخبرنا الفخر ابن البخاري
    عن الحافظ ابن الجوزي به


    It is not known from any source that any of these famous scholars who transmitted the Daff were on record as either criticising or rejecting its contents after transmitting it to the next layer. This is in effect an indirect confirmation or commendation of its contents, even if some from the Hanbali School had objections to its contents. Indeed, what shows that Imam Ibn al Jawzi was unconcerned with what his fellow Hanbali’s had to say in critique of his work, which can also be applied to those who said similarly to the latter camp decades later (like Ibn Taymiyya et al) is the fact that towards the end of his Daff Shubuh al-Tashbih, Ibn al Jawzi himself realized with confidence that his admirers outnumbered his opponents. He said in a poetical manner:

    I have surpassed while praising God, those who were before me –
    So say to he who hopes to catch me:
    Take your time!
    If you had lessened your criticism –
    It would be hard after searching to find one quite like me.

    Then a few lines later he said:
    Baghdad is an abode in which its people are not duped
    – And their love is only for he who has prestige
    – And all of the lands my virtues have freighted them
    – The devout, the rugged (and), the soft have all acknowledged my excellence.
    My mention with virtue beyond the River is abundant
    – And in the far West and wherever camels have reached.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Once again, let not the reader be fooled by this claimant.


  6. #14
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    Default Re: Excellent Website Defending the 'Aqida of Ahlus Sunnah

    Quote Originally Posted by StudentOfTheDeen View Post
    Still no reply on the 'aynayn issue. Rather, you've done exactly what you always do:


    How can he reply on the Aynayn issue when he was caught red handed in covering up the truth once again! Lol.

    Shaykh Abul Hasan said the following in expose of this slippery Qadri:

    --------------------------------------

    Indeed, Imam Ibn al Jawzi also elucidated on the Aynayn issue in his Daff Shubuh al-Tashbih (see p. 51 of the English edition entitled, The Attributes of God) where he said:

    “But, Qadi (Abu Ya’la) held the view that the eye is an attribute added to the essence, while Abu Bakr ibn Khuzayma preceded him in this matter. When commenting about the verse, he (Ibn Khuzayma) said, ‘Our Lord has two eyes by which He sees.’ Ibn Hamid has also stated, ‘It is compulsory to believe that He has two eyes.’

    This (understanding) is an innovation for which they have no evidence! Similarly, they affirmed the eyes from mere contrast indication from his saying (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam), ‘ He is not one eyed.’ But, the only thing intended (in this case) was to negate imperfection from Him, Exalted be He. Furthermore, when it is established that He does not divide into sections, there is no basis for what is imagined to be attributes.”

    Thus, the unbiased reader may clearly witness that Ibn al Jawzi negated the belief of Aynayn as Sifat for Allah in two separate works that he penned by himself, one being the Kitab Akhbar al-Sifat (the longer work) and its abridged edition known as Daff Shubuh al-Tashbih (also known as al-Baz al-Ashhab). Indeed, Ibn al-Jawzi knew of his detractors (like may be Ibn al Althi) from within his own Madhhab, and it appears likely that what we have in print these days may be the second editions of Ibn al Jawzi’s two named works for in both works he addressed these detractors without naming them. This is what he had to say in his Daff Shubuh al-Tashbih (p. 111-112 of the English edition):

    “I would also like to make mention that when a group of the fools gained knowledge of this book of mine it did not please them, since they were familiar with the words of their leaders who compared God with His creation. They attempted to defend themselves by saying, ‘This (does not represent) the Madhhab (of Ahmad ibn al-Hanbal). Indeed, it is not your Madhhab, nor the Madhhab of your Shaykhs you have emulated. I have cleared any charges against the Madhhab of Imam Ahmad and from him the false narrations and the raving statements while not opting taqlid (the following of qualified scholarship without knowing the evidences) in what I believe. How could I not discard counterfeit money while I am paying (real) cash?

    Then in a long poem, Ibn al Jawzi made further mention of his Hanbali detractors (some of whom seem to have had a part in his banishment into exile from Baghdad to Wasit for some 5 years in his last years as a grand old man) by saying:
    ---------------
    And his Madhhab is not to equate anything with his Lord
    – And he follows in submission those who passed before.
    – So the envious one from every part stood up against him –
    Then he stood up on the foot of firmness while they slipped.
    – And he had true followers coming successively
    – O the many they gave direction towards guidance and to you they showed the way!
    – Then a group of people came claiming the adoption of a Madhhab
    – In accord with his Madhhab.
    - Not every branch has a root.
    – So not in the branches of Fiqh do they stand firm in his support
    – And they have beyond what he said a preoccupation.
    – When they debate they take the stance of a warrior
    – What astonishment when all of the people are unarmed!
    – Their analogizing is irrelevant whenever they proceed with it
    – And they are in the sciences of transmission lacking.
    – If there isn’t one possessing intelligence regarding transmitted knowledge
    – Vipers resemble one another. So the robe is severed.
    – And they inclined towards anthropomorphism while adopting the apparent form of that which they transmitted regarding the attributes and they were heedless.
    – And they said: “What we say is the Madhhab of Ahmad”
    – And those possessing ignorance inclined to giving them credence.
    – The opponents started saying that we were those who compared God with his creation
    The comrades and friends have hurt us.
    – They have disgraced that Imam by way of their ignorance
    – While his Madhhab is exoneration.
    But they are loners.
    – By my life! I have met true scholars from their midst
    – While most of those I met lacked intelligence.
    – I continue to clean away from them every property
    – Of the despicable creed so that unity can be achieved.
    – They were designated with titles while they have no knowledge
    – Their morals have neither sacred precincts nor free districts.
    – On their tables the vinegar doesn’t join with its herbs
    – And if you will: ‘There’s neither vinegar nor herbs on them.’
    – And the most envious of us are the people of my Madhhab
    – So if they were able they’d pass a verdict that my blood is lawful.
    – They wish out of ignorance that my sandal would slip
    – While not one foot of theirs has walked before in glory like me.
    – And since the Shaykh of the party, Ahmad, has passed away
    – Until now there hasn’t existed an equal to your scholar.
    – A thousand thousands (one million) have spent the night with me standing
    – The clouds of my exhortation, each of them is a storm cloud and moisture.
    – And all the gardens of my knowledge exult the fruits
    – And their garden, when you observe it, is strengthened.
    – So what do you think is the cure for the envious and his sickness?
    – If the experienced doctor is asked about him he forgets him?
    – An opponent is alone in his disgusting hatred
    – Is not the people’s uniting behind me a just witness?

    * * *
    “The Attributes of God" is complete. In the last lesson of “The Negation of Anthropomorphism” of the Dictations of Hafiz Abu Al-Qasim ‘Ali ibn Al-Hasan ibn Hibat Allah Al-Shafi’I I say, “Abu ‘Abd Allah ibn Muhammad ibn Al-Hasan ibn Mansur Al-Mu’ammil linafsihi sung to us:
    – God is greater than for there to be for His essence
    – A description like the essences of His creatures.
    – Or for His attributes to be equated, in all of what
    – We manifest from our actions, to His attributes.
    – Be there destruction for the possessor of folly who says that He is
    – A composite body and that our characteristics are like His characteristics!
    – The uniqueness of His fashioning, to Him, are witnesses
    – That appear on the surface of all that He made.
    – He dispersed the human race with an eternal power
    – And He willed it in them for His decrees.
    - And He saw with the eye of knowledge what would bring
    – The glances of their eyes as well as what they would not bring.
    ------
    It is worth noting and pointing out at that this point in time that AR Qadri knew very well of what was quoted from the Kitab Akhbar al-Sifat of Ibn al-Jawzi negating Aynayn for Allah. This is evident from the following link - http://forums.*********************/...rgument-10253/
    Instead of addressing the following points that we quoted above and repeated (with the quote from Ibn Aqil missing) by Bassam Zawadi:

    Ibn al Jawzi in Akhbar al-Sifat said (point 40):

    “In the same category are the following verses: ‘…In order that you might be reared under My (watchful) eyes.’ And ‘build an ark under Our eyes.’ The expression ‘Under Our eyes’ is taken by (some) exegetes to mean ‘under our command’ (amr)’, and by others to mean ‘under Our oversight (mar’an minna).’ Abu Bakr b. al-Anbari pointed out that among the Arabs the plural (pronoun) is sometimes used even when the referent is singular; hence, one may say: ‘We travelled to Basra (when one really means ‘I travelled to Basra’).’ This use of the plural derives from the practice of kings who are in the habit of saying ‘our command’ or ‘our prohibition.’ The Qadi (Abu Ya’la) maintained that ‘eye’ is an attribute added to the divine essence (za’ida ala dh-dhat). Already before him Abu Bakr b. Khuzayma said, in connection with the above verses: ‘Our Lord has two eyes by which He sees.” Ibn Hamid said: ‘We must believe that God has two eyes.’ This view, however, is an innovation for which there is no justification in scripture. (Champions of this view) attribute two eyes to God only through a kind of inferential reason (Dalil al-Khitab) based on the Prophet’s (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) statement: ‘He is not one eyed.’ These words, however, were meant only to deny that imperfection of any sort can be ascribed to God….”

    In points 217-219, ibn al Jawzi said:

    In the Sahihs of Bukhari and Muslim there is a tradition from Anas b. Malik in which it is reported that the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) said while discussing (the signs of) the Antichrist (dajjal): “He will have one eye (a’war), but your Lord is not one-eyed.”

    The Ulama maintain that the chief aim of this saying is to assert that God cannot be described in any way that might imply imperfection, for being one-eyed is obviously an indication of imperfection. The Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) did not mean to ascribe to God bodily organs, for there is nothing praiseworthy in the attribution of such to God.

    Ibn Aqil said: “The ill informed sometimes assume that since (the Prophet) denied that God is one eyed He meant to establish by a kind of inferential reason (dalil al-khitab) that God has two eyes. This is a serious misunderstanding (of the saying), for by denying that God is one-eyed (the Prophet) merely intended to negate (the possibility of) imperfection in Him….

    What can be observed from Qadri is that instead of addressing the above quotes directly he digressed onto critiquing the stance of Ibn al Jawzi and his level of scholarship by quoting just a handful of later scholars, but as can be seen, none of these quotes are a direct response to the Aynayn issue or are they a precise point by riposte to the researched findings of Ibn al Jawzi in his Daff Shubuh al-Tashbih and its lengthier version, Kitab Akhbar al-Sifat. Instead, Qadri questioned Zawadi as follows:

    1) Where is the isnaad for the supposedly book of Ibn Jawzi ?

    2) Is the Isnaad for the book authentic ?
    Note how Bassam Zawadi figured out Qadri’s digressory tactic to avoid actually answering the quotes from Ibn al Jazwi negating Aynayn when he said in a frustrated manner:
    “what's your problem? its none of your business. I want to refute every single argument of my opponents and let the public see them and benefit from them. if you have knowledge to refute the argument, then share your knowledge. if you don't, then spare me your comments.

    Thank you for the wealth of information that you have provided, but no thank you for not DIRECTLY ANSWERING THE ARGUMENT. Which was my original question to begin with.

    Can someone refute the argument by using the Arabic language?”

    ------------------------------------------------

    Lahawla wala quwwata illa billah.


  7. #15
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    Default Re: Excellent Website Defending the 'Aqida of Ahlus Sunnah

    Quote Originally Posted by arqadri View Post



    here is what Ibn Jawzi says about Abul Hasan al-Ashari

    Sayd al-Khatir of Ibn Jawzi how he rebukes Abul Hasan Ash'ari:
    quote:

    و هذا أمر مستقر لم يختلف فيه أحد من القدماء في زمن الرسول صلى الله عليه و سلم و الصحابة رضوان الله عليهم ، ثم دس الشيطان دسائس البدع ، فقال قوم : هذا المشار إليه مخلوق ، فثبت الإمام أحمد رحمه الله ثبوتاً لم يثبته غيره على دفع هذا القول ، لئلا يتطرق إلى القرآن ما يمحو بعض تعظيمه في النفوس ، و يخرجه عن الإضافة إلى الله عز وجل .
    و رأى أن إبتداع ما لم يقل فيه لا يجوز إستعماله فقال : كيف أقول ما لم يقل .
    ثم لم يختلف الناس في غير ذلك ، إلى أن نشأ علي بن إسماعيل الأشعري فقال مرة بقول المعتزلة ، ثم عن له فإدعى أن الكلام صفة قائمه بالنفس ، فأوجبت دعواه هذه أن ما عندنا مخلوق .
    و زادت فخبطت العقائد تعالى فما زال أهل البدع يجوبون في تيارها إلى اليوم .
    و الكلام في هذه المسألة مرتب بذكر الحجج و الشبه في كتب الأصول ، فلا أطيل به ههنا ، بل أذكر لك جملة تكفي من أراد الله هداه ،و هو أن الشرع قنع منا بالإيمان جملة ، و بتعظيم الظواهر ، و نهى عن الخوض فيما يتير غبار شبهة ، و لا تقوى على قطع طريقه أقدام الفهم .
    و إذا كان قد نهى عن الخوض في القدر فكيف يجوز الخوض في صفات المقدر
    ؟ . .
    و ما ذاك إلا لأحد الأمرين اللذين ذكرتهما ، إما لخوف إثارة شبهة تزلزل العقائد ، أو لأن قوى البشر تعجز عن إدراك الحقائق .
    sayd al-khatir of Ibn Jawzi al-Hanbali.

    so we ask the same thing to Abul Hasan Hussain Ahmed ( sunni Muslim ?)
    You need to tell the readers when was Sayd al Khatir written and is it his final stance on al-Ash'ari and the Asharites first. Also, are you really inline with all of the contents of Sayd al-Khatir?! Tell us what he says about the Sifat in that work and those who take it on the Zahir.. Go ahead open up a new thread

    Now, you need to explain why one of your pseudo-Salafi admirers of Ibn Taymiyya known as Muhammad Khalil Harras (the one who wrote the Sharh on al-Wasitiyya) mentioned Ibn al-Jawzi as being himself an ASH'ARI.

    Do not tell me he made a mistake as this man is regarded as some sort of expert on Aqida and the History of the Islamic sects by that sect of his:



    Uploaded with ImageShack.us



    Uploaded with ImageShack.us


    NOTE - How Harras the expert on your aqida mentioned the following as being Ash'arites also:

    Ibn Fawrak, Imam al-Haramayn, al-Ghazzali, al-Razi, al-Halimi, al-Amidi, Ibn Aqil, al-Nawawi and al-Izz ibn Abdas Salam

    Mashallah!


  8. #16

    Default Re: Excellent Website Defending the 'Aqida of Ahlus Sunnah

    I think it's also quite important to highlight the fact that Qadri hasn't even tried to respond to or refute anything on the actual website in the actual opening post. All he has said in regards to the actual website are things like:

    Quote Originally Posted by arqadri View Post
    um, but it is the same arguments Abul Hasan used to send me or discuss with me on many different forums or via email.
    Doesn't look like that because of the arguments used, writing style and the logic. More like likely to be AH Hussain Ahmed's work.
    However, it was highlighted to him that the website is actually a translation of a French site, meaning for his claims to be true, Shaykh Abul Hasan would have to be fluent in French. So his silly speculation and speaking without knowledge is nothing more than that.

    May Allaah increase us in understanding.

    I guess then, everyone can rest assured that the website is as the name of the thread suggests:

    'Excellent Website Defending the 'Aqida of Ahlus Sunnah'
    طلب العلم فريضة على كل مسلم

    “The acquisition of knowledge is a duty incumbent on every muslim”

    http://www.youtube.com/user/StudentOfTheDeen


  9. #17
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    Default Re: Excellent Website Defending the 'Aqida of Ahlus Sunnah

    Quote Originally Posted by StudentOfTheDeen View Post

    I guess then, everyone can rest assured that the website is as the name of the thread suggests:

    'Excellent Website Defending the 'Aqida of Ahlus Sunnah'

    AGREED

    Qadri also failed to admit that a major Hanafi usuli Imam - Alaud-Din al-Bukhari wrote a book against Ibn Taymiyya whereby he had gathered endorsements from the major figures of the Hanafi, Maliki and Shafi'i schools agreeing with him. This we dealt with last year -

    http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...in-Ahmed/page2


    Quote:

    Anyway, just because a Shaykh may have praised Ibn Taymiyya for his Ilm, it does not necessarily follow that such a Shaykh is totally inline with Ibn Taymiyya's creed let alone his aberrant positions in Fiqhi matters, or that they knew his works inside out on his controversies surroundiung creed. This is true no matter how much you hate to admit it.

    So, let us see a nice example from Imam BADRUD-DIN AL-AYNI and how he mentioned what Imam al-Ala'i (d. 761 AH) - who lived in the same time as Ibn Taymiyya had to say about the way Ibn Taymiyya was out of line with even Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal on issues surrounding Tabarruk and how even the latter used the shirt of Imam al-Shafi'i for Tabarruk purposes after washing it and drinking the remaining water.

    Quote from Umdatul Qari (9/241):

    وَقَالَ شَيخنَا زين الدّين: وَأما قَول الشَّافِعِي: وَمهما قبل من الْبَيْت فَحسن، فَإِنَّهُ لم يرد بالْحسنِ مَشْرُوعِيَّة ذَلِك، بل أَرَادَ إِبَاحَة ذَلِك، والمباح من جملَة الْحسن، كَمَا ذكره الأصوليون. قلت: فِيهِ نظر لَا يخفى، وَقَالَ أَيْضا: وَأما تَقْبِيل الْأَمَاكِن الشَّرِيفَة على قصد التَّبَرُّك، وَكَذَلِكَ تَقْبِيل أَيدي الصَّالِحين وأرجلهم فَهُوَ حسن مَحْمُود بِاعْتِبَار الْقَصْد وَالنِّيَّة، وَقد سَأَلَ أَبُو هُرَيْرَة الْحسن، رَضِي الله تَعَالَى عَنهُ، أَن يكْشف لَهُ الْمَكَان الَّذِي قبله، رَسُول الله صلى الله عَلَيْهِ وَسلم، وَهُوَ سرته، فَقبله تبركا بآثاره وَذريته، صلى الله عَلَيْهِ وَسلم، وَقد كَانَ ثَابت الْبنانِيّ لَا يدع يَد أنس، رَضِي الله تَعَالَى عَنهُ، حَتَّى يقبلهَا، وَيَقُول: يَد مست يَد رَسُول الله، صلى الله عَلَيْهِ وَسلم، وَقَالَ أَيْضا: وَأَخْبرنِي الْحَافِظ أَبُو سعيد ابْن العلائي قَالَ: رَأَيْت فِي كَلَام أَحْمد بن حَنْبَل فِي جُزْء قديم عَلَيْهِ خطّ ابْن نَاصِر وَغَيره من الْحفاظ، أَن الإِمَام أَحْمد سُئِلَ عَن تَقْبِيل قبر النَّبِي، صلى الله عَلَيْهِ وَسلم، وتقبيل منبره، فَقَالَ: لَا بَأْس بذلك، قَالَ: فأريناه للشَّيْخ تَقِيّ الدّين بن تَيْمِية فَصَارَ يتعجب من ذَلِك، وَيَقُول: عجبت أَحْمد عِنْدِي جليل يَقُوله؟ هَذَا كَلَامه أَو معنى كَلَامه؟ وَقَالَ: وَأي عجب فِي ذَلِك وَقد روينَا عَن الإِمَام أَحْمد أَنه غسل قَمِيصًا للشَّافِعِيّ وَشرب المَاء الَّذِي غسله بِهِ، وَإِذا كَانَ هَذَا تَعْظِيمه لأهل الْعلم فَكيف بمقادير الصَّحَابَة؟ وَكَيف بآثار الْأَنْبِيَاء، عَلَيْهِم الصَّلَاة وَالسَّلَام؟ وَلَقَد أحسن مَجْنُون ليلى حَيْثُ يَقُول:
    (أَمر على الديار ديار ليلى ... أقبل ذَا الْجِدَار وَذَا الْجِدَار)

    (وَمَا حب الدَّار شغفن قلبِي ... وَلَكِن حبُّ من سكن الديارا)

    -------------------

    Tell us if you are with Ibn Taymiyya or with al-Ala'i and al-Ayni on these matters? Or do you consider it a form of Shirk like some Wahhabiyya like to say these days without knowing the full facts?! These may have been fiqhi matters in those days but your fellow anti-Asharites from Wahhabiyya have made these into aqeeda issues now as they are calling it Shirk and Bid'a - i mean on these types of Tabarruk reports that they try to refute and negate (like Rabi Madkhali tried to do in a recent work)!


    By the way - Queer did not always mean gay as you thought, but it was used against you for your strangeness. See here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer Quote:

    Since its emergence in the English language in the 16th century (related to the German quer, meaning "across, at right angle, diagonally or transverse"), queer has generally meant "strange", "unusual", or "out of alignment". It might refer to something suspicious or "not quite right", or to a person with mild derangement or who exhibits socially inappropriate behaviour.

    Also, go back and study Imam al Karmi's book carefully and reply to Karashi in arabic, as well as a radd on Shaykh Ghawiji's book on the Ibana if you are capable that is... Once again in arabic.

    Your deception is too apparent! You still need to admit here that Imam Alaud-Din al Bukhari al-HANAFI was one who wrote against Ibn Taymiyya and he too had endorsements for his book, all this after reading the works of Ibn Taymiyya in Damascus. Though we do not agree in calling ibn Taymiyya a kafir or one who calls him Shaykh al-Islam to be called a kafir for that matter, the view of Imam Alaud-Din al-Bukhari is based on Hanafi principles as well. Read this from Imam al-Sakhawi's Daw al-Lami (8/103):

    وَقَامَ عَلَيْهِ الْعَلَاء البُخَارِيّ لكَون التصنيف فِي الْحَقِيقَة رد بِهِ عَلَيْهِ فَإِنَّهُ لما
    سكن دمشق كَانَ يسْأَل عَن مقالات ابْن تَيْمِية الَّتِي انْفَرد بهَا فيجيب بِمَا يظْهر من الْخَطَأ فِيهَا وينفر عَنهُ قلبه إِلَى أَن استحكم أمره عَنهُ وَصرح بتبديعه ثمَّ بتكفيره ثمَّ صثار يُصَرح فِي مَجْلِسه بِأَن من أطلق على ابْن تَيْمِية أَنه شيخ الْإِسْلَام يكفر بِهَذَا الْإِطْلَاق واشتهر ذَلِك فَجمع صَاحب التَّرْجَمَة فِي كِتَابه الْمشَار إِلَيْهِ كَلَام من أطلق عَلَيْهِ ذَلِك من الْأَئِمَّة الْأَعْلَام من أهل عصره من جَمِيع الْمذَاهب سوى الْحَنَابِلَة


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