Islamic Democracy!

[Revert2001]

Ok I do not want to get involved in some pantomime debate where you say its not and I say it is...over and over. Maybe this is how some adult Americans conduct discussions....but its not how I operate.

Prejudiced against Americans I see.

I'm not surprised..........

[Abu Zakir]

Some adult Americans....not all, obviously meaning you and only you.

Prejudiced against Americans I see.

I'm not surprised..........

[Revert2001]

Some adult Americans....not all, obviously meaning you and only you.

Color me shocked!!......shocked I tell you......LOL

[abumusab]

Quote Originally Posted by abumusab View Post
This is a false analogy from its premise.

Democracy would be like Pig - whatever you did to it, it would not change its essential characteristic.

Cake on the other hand, like all material objects, is universal and not restricted by belief and the ingredients of the cake will determine if it is halal. The exception to the universality of objects would be those objects which Allah has made haram such as Alcohol and those which result from another belief such as a christian cross or jewish skull cap.

Democracy, on the other hand, is not an object but a ruling system which is not from Islam. When it comes to action, Muslims are restricted to taking only that which our Nabi (saw) has brought:

Take what the messenger brings you and abstain from what he forbids you. Be mindful of Allah, Allah is severe in punishment (59.7)

This verse means that whatever the Nabi did not bring in terms of rules (let alone an entire ruling system), we are not allowed to take it.... not to mention the countless verses which order that sovereignty belongs to Allah and not subject to man's whims and desires, which is what results when you attempt to conjure up a so-called "Islamic-Democracy" - ie law of man mixed in teh equation of law of Allah.

“Verily the Hukm (ruling) is for none but Allah” (Yusuf 40)

“And rule between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their desires and beware of them that they may seduce you away from some of that which Allah has revealed to you” (Al-Maa'idah 49)

Until now, no-one has been able to refute this fundamental premise based on Islamic evidences. And it is evident the advocates of Democracy fumble in justification mode in not being able to provide a single evidence from Quran and Sunnah, the final arbiter for all Muslims. And furthermore, they are shy to define Democracy, perhaps knowing that in any shape or form, the sovereignty of Shariah is compromised in making man equal to Allah as the legislator of the halal and haram.

The attempt to misconstrue shurah is ample proof of the failure to import democracy into Islam when anyone with basic knowledge would know that there is no Shurah on legislative matters but on non-legislative matters only. Our Nabi (saw) would consult Muslims on where they would like to fight, in Mecca or Madina, for Badr for example but never on the laws of Jihad.

In fact, in every legislative matter, our Messenger (saw) would await revelation and never consult the people since sovereignty belongs only to what Allah has revealed in all legislative matters.

Our Nabi (saw) said: “The Halal is that which Allah has made Halal in his Book, and the Haram is that which Allah has made Haram in his Book.” (Hadith)

As for any matter which is subject to Ijtihad, the Sahabah have demonstrated that whatever opinion the Imam/Amir/Khalif adopted on any matter was done without any Shurah and the Muslims enacted despite having a different opinion, as was the case when Abu Bakr (ra) adopted that booty acquired from Jihad should be distributed equally while he was Khalif but Omar (ra) differed in his ijtihad which was the spoils should be divided relative to duration of their embracing of Islam, but enacted Abu Bakr's adoption inhis capacity as the Khalif.

Revert2001 - try again this time based on an Islamic evidences.

[abumusab]

Revert2001 - I noticed you did not even respond to this after you absurd claim that mobile phones were a christian invention unless I am mistaken?

Scientific and technological inventions do not emanate from a creed or ideology nor did any creed or ideology result in their discovery. So for example, both the Capitalists and Communists invented the Nuclear bomb since the invention was not as a result of the ideology but the human effort and research. They can be discovered by anyone who exerted himself regardless of his belief as science and technology have no religion or ideology.

Democracy is not a scientific or technological invention but the ruling system specifically emanating from secularism in which after Religion was banished from State, sovereignty belongs to man. So it would be false to liken the ruling system, which does emanate from a belief, to science and technology which is universal.

[Revert2001]

Revert2001 - I noticed you did not even respond to this after you absurd claim that mobile phones were a christian invention unless I am mistaken?

People here claim that things invented by muslims in predominately muslim countries are "Islamic Inventions"

So conversely; cars, airplanes, telephones, etc., that were invented by Christians in predominately christian nations should be called "Christian Inventions"

Makes sense to me...........

[Revert2001]

Revert2001 - try again this time based on an Islamic evidences.

Exactly do you attempt to refute a post that starts out with:

"Democracy would be like Pig - whatever you did to it, it would not change its essential characteristic".

[Abu Zakir]

Exactly do you attempt to refute a post that starts out with:

"Democracy would be like Pig - whatever you did to it, it would not change its essential characteristic".

Incapable of rational discourse only capable of posting silly and meaningless refrains most of the time.


Just a suggestion, you might want to read with comprehension, look at the context and come up with a refutation. I think he means Democracy is like a pig (completely haram) and not like a cake which someone else had mentioned, which can be halal and or haram. If Democracy is like a pig completely haram it cannot be made into halal partly, just like you cannot get halal whisky. I suspect you are not really interested in discussion more interested in making off the cuff comments because its fun....you sound like an adolescent.

[Revert2001]

Incapable of rational discourse only capable of posting silly and meaningless refrains most of the time.
Just a suggestion, you might want to read with comprehension, look at the context and come up with a refutation. I think he means Democracy is like a pig (completely haram) and not like a cake which someone else had mentioned, which can be halal and or haram. If Democracy is like a pig completely haram it cannot be made into halal partly, just like you cannot get halal whisky. I suspect you are not really interested in discussion more interested in making off the cuff comments because its fun....you sound like an adolescent.

Yea, you busted me alright hommie.......

I am like 12 years old and posting from my parens computer while they are asleep.

Please let that be our little secret.........OK??

[Abu Zakir]

Its not a secret. What is the point in saying Democracy is halal if you are not interested in engaging with counter arguments? Should your views just be dismissed as non sense?