The issue of woman travelling without a Mahram

**SASLAMS** · 07-08-2012, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Antivirus

Yes but seeking knowledge is wajib isnt it. South African darul ul ulooms doesnt put any condition for foreign female students to be accompanied by mahrams when coming from abroad to the darul ul uloom or returning back home (or there are such conditions which i am not aware of maybe). So i would presume that it is something acceptable since those Darul ul Ulooms are run by high calibre ulemas

only that which is fardh ayn is wajib not everything in the darul uloom. & since it is fardhu kifayah to have people reaching this level then one person in a comunity only go & its better that it be a man.

some ulama have written articles about the evils of aalimahs in south africa. not that they evil but the problems with alimas. one thing that was mentioned was that never did a women live in a darul uloom in the time of sahabah & tabieen.

**SASLAMS** · 07-08-2012, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by warea

What is the basis upon which the scholars understood that the 3days in the narration is a fixed measure of distance that was calculated with a certain type of transportation, like horse only ? Rather than just 3days being the decisive time factor, whatver the animal or distance it maybe ?

i dont think its only distance factor or just a time factor. in some shafi kitaabs they mention about traveling far distance in a moment. in those days it was normal for the pious to travel these distances without transport. you find stories about the mufti on Makka seeing Imaam Haddad making tawaf every evening but he would be back in Hadramaut for isha jamaat. his student Shaykha sultana would travel a 40km journey daily for lessons, a trip that is about 45 min by car but back then could take half a day.

**Hellokitty** · 08-08-2012, 02:40 PM

Salams this hadiths really does make sense. If you think about the dangers that happen to women when out travelling alone. Personally I don't like travelling without my husband it freaks me out

**SeekerOfGuidance** · 08-08-2012, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Amna4

What could a ruling be for someone (like me), who is a convert? Neither my brother or father are Muslim, so I am forced to wait until I am married to visit Mekkah?

Originally Posted by SeekerOfGuidance

There are usually exceptions to any general rule. You should consult a reliable Mufti regarding your individual circumstances.

Shaykh Mufti Muhammad Taqi al-Usmani (may Allah preserve him) states:

�However, in the case of a woman who has neither a husband nor a father, nor does she have some other relative who could support her financially, nor does she have enough funds to take care of her needs, it would, under this situation, become permissible for her to go out of the house under legal hijab and earn her living to the limit of her need. Now, when this purpose can be easily achieved while living in one's own country or city, then there is no need to travel to a foreign land. If there is no other way for her, but to travel to another city, and she does not have any Mahrams, then only in this situation it will be permissible for her to take the opinion of Imam Shafi�i and Imam Malik, for they have given permission for her to travel with a group of trustworthy women [in such situations]�. (Buhuth fi qadhaya fiqhiyya al-mu�asira, P. 338).

**SeekerOfGuidance** · 08-08-2012, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Antivirus

Do you happen to know a ruling for women/young girls traveling alone or with a group of female friends (but without any mahram) when going to Darul Ulooms and coming back home for holidays? Distance is way above 50 miles.

There was a similar thread on this topic way back. No definite answer came out of it and the thread was locked.

I don't know on what basis they have allowed such a practice, although I am aware that senior Muftis have criticized it.

**Antivirus** · 10-08-2012, 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by SeekerOfGuidance

I don't know on what basis they have allowed such a practice, although I am aware that senior Muftis have criticized it.

I am not aware of any basis as well. Probably they are against it but they do not put any such condition when the woman/young girls applies to the Darul ul Uloom. Probably the onus here is on the women/young girls to make sure that they take all precautions when traveling to the Darul ul Uloom, and the latter is no way responsible if ever they dont. Although they do not warn anything about it.

Is it possible that a certain leeway is adopted in this situation? for example, if there is no Darul ul Uloom in a country and the next best alternative is one in a country which is more than 50 miles away. Then the women/young girls can travel without mahrams provided they are in a big group of other women/young girls?

**SASLAMS** · 10-08-2012, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by Antivirus

I am not aware of any basis as well. Probably they are against it but they do not put any such condition when the woman/young girls applies to the Darul ul Uloom. Probably the onus here is on the women/young girls to make sure that they take all precautions when traveling to the Darul ul Uloom, and the latter is no way responsible if ever they dont. Although they do not warn anything about it.

Is it possible that a certain leeway is adopted in this situation? for example, if there is no Darul ul Uloom in a country and the next best alternative is one in a country which is more than 50 miles away. Then the women/young girls can travel without mahrams provided they are in a big group of other women/young girls?

only that which is fardh ayn is wajib not everything in the darul uloom. & since it is fardhu kifayah to have people reaching this level then one person in a comunity only go & its better that it be a man.

some ulama have written articles about the evils of aalimahs in south africa. not that they evil but the problems with alimas. one thing that was mentioned was that never did a women live in a darul uloom in the time of sahabah & tabieen.

**Antivirus** · 10-08-2012, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by SASLAMS

only that which is fardh ayn is wajib not everything in the darul uloom. & since it is fardhu kifayah to have people reaching this level then one person in a comunity only go & its better that it be a man.

some ulama have written articles about the evils of aalimahs in south africa. not that they evil but the problems with alimas. one thing that was mentioned was that never did a women live in a darul uloom in the time of sahabah & tabieen.

So what you are deducing is that it is wrong for women/young girls to travel to those darul ulooms and clearly the people running those darul ulooms are wrong as well for accepting girls/women who travel more than 48 miles without a mahram?

**meelash** · 10-08-2012, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by warea

What is the basis upon which the scholars understood that the 3days in the narration is a fixed measure of distance that was calculated with a certain type of transportation, like horse only ? Rather than just 3days being the decisive time factor, whatver the animal or distance it maybe ?

The narration don't measure 3 days, but rather 3 manzils. A manzil is a measure of distance. It is defined as the distance an average healthy person can travel on foot in a day. In the old days they used to have a waypoint/rest area after every manzil on the traveling routes, where travelers could camp for the night.

**SASLAMS** · 10-08-2012, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Antivirus

So what you are deducing is that it is wrong for women/young girls to travel to those darul ulooms and clearly the people running those darul ulooms are wrong as well for accepting girls/women who travel more than 48 miles without a mahram?

im not saying they wrong, but maybe we should get the rulling. if the hanafi ulam are so strict against women travelling alone for hajj which is fardh then why do they allow her to travel & live in a foreign country for something which is fardhu kifayah.