Whirling Dervishes a waste of money to see as they are un-Islamic?

[Arif2]

Is Group Dhikr With Swaying Permissible?

Answered by Faraz Rabbani

1. I'm not talking about group Dhikr, I know there are differences of opinion about the Hadra, etc. amongst the madhhahib, but as far as I know dancing and the like are not permitted in the Hanafi madhhab.
2. We should not take Fatwa from Faraz Rabbani.

Mufti A.S Desai (hafidhahullâh) replied to a question on this specific fatwa [see link at end of quote] :

Respected Brother,

Your e-mail dated 12 August 2011 refers.

It is shirk to direct supplications (duas) to the dead. The fatwa
which you have mentioned is erroneous. The statement, “Ya Ali I
invoke thee..” is shirk.

It is necessary to refrain from the lectuires, etc. of this ‘famous
Aalim”. It appears that he is from among the people of bid’ah.

Attached is an explanation on Tawassul.

Was-salaam

A.S. Desai

It matters not if the shaeikh is a Deobandi. It does not follow that
whatever a Deobandi Shaikh says is correct even if it conflicts with
the Shariah.

Feel free to circulate our reply. It is valid for you to inform others
that the shaikh’s statement is in conflict with the Shariah and is
tantamount to shirk. Don’t become embroiled in disputes with anyone.
Merely inform them, and leave them to make their own decision.

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...l=1#post662879

[mh16388]

Read Zinda Rood by Javed Iqbal s/o Allama Iqbal

and that is proof of his wilayah?

this was discussed (and settled) on SF some months back - who is a Wali of Allah?
it was in one of those shafi beard threads that had cropped up. kindly have a look.

[Arif2]

and that is proof of his wilayah?

this was discussed (and settled) on SF some months back - who is a Wali of Allah?
it was in one of those shafi beard threads that had cropped up. kindly have a look.

It's also discussed in this one:
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...Shaykh-Babikir

[aMuslimForLife]

1. I'm not talking about group Dhikr, I know there are differences of opinion about the Hadra, etc. amongst the madhhahib, but as far as I know dancing and the like are not permitted in the Hanafi madhhab.
2. We should not take Fatwa from Faraz Rabbani.

Anyone who tells me that I shouldn't take fatwa from this person or that person... I never take them seriously... The fact of the matter is that the Hanafi madhab is a very large madhab and I am sure that the scholars of the Hanafi madhab differ on points depending on region they are from (Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Turkey, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Jordon). You would be lying to me if you told that all these Hanafis from these different regions agree on everything... There are Hanafi scholars who are Shadhili who engage in the Hadra in Syria and other parts of the world... I am not saying that the hanafis of India or Pakistan will agree with the Hanafis of Syria and Egypt where you find Hanafi Shadhili Ulama doing the Hadra (dancing with dhikr).... I just got through reading the Realities of Sufism by Shaykh Abd al Qadir Isa who is a Hanafi Shadhili Shaykh and he provided proof for the Hadra in the Hanafi madhab.... And I am sure the Hanafis in India and Pakistan will disagree with him.... who cares??? The Ulama differ and just accept the difference... Even in the Shafi madhab differences exist about the Hadra, eventhough the dominant opinion is that the hadra is permitted in the Shafi madhab, however you will find scholars who oppose it, like Shaykh ramadaan buti, he has the right, he can oppose that position....

There are hanafi ulama at the level of a mufti in the world today who support the Hadra... that is a fact. And there are Hanafi ulama at the level of a mufti in the world today who oppose the hadra... and that is a fact also... This is also true about the Hanbali madhab, there are muftis in Sham who approve of the Hadra, even though that is not the dominant opinion the madhab... And same is true about the Maliki madhab...

No one is saying it is obligatory to be Shadhili or whatever tariqa does hadras. If you don't want to do Hadra there is the naqshabandi tariqa you can follow where Hadra is not part of the spiritual education..... The Naqshabandi is a beautiful tariqa and one who takes that path will reach the highest levels of marifa in sha Allah...

We shouldn't condemn people because they follow different scholars... We have to accept it...

[XTREME]

and that is proof of his wilayah?

this was discussed (and settled) on SF some months back - who is a Wali of Allah?
it was in one of those shafi beard threads that had cropped up. kindly have a look.

There is a story mentioned by Iqbal (RA) to his son. Read that part bro

I am Alhamdulillah! in contact with Aulia Allah. He told me that about Allama Iqbal (RA). I took bayah 2 years back & I am so happy to have him as a Sheikh!

[Arif2]

Anyone who tells me that I shouldn't take fatwa from this person or that person... I never take them seriously... The fact of the matter is that the Hanafi is a very large madhab and I am sure that the scholars of the Hanafi madhab differ on points depending on region they are from. There are Hanafi scholars who are Shadhili who engage in the Hadra in Syria and other parts of the world... I am not saying that the hanafis of India or Pakistan will agree with the Hanafis of Syria and Egypt where you find Hanafi Shadhili Ulama doing the Hadra (dancing with dhikr).... I just got through reading the Realities of Sufism by Shaykh Abd al Qadir Isa who is a Hanafi Shadhili Shaykh and he provided proof for the Hadra in the Hanafi madhab.... And I am sure the Hanafis in India and Pakistan will disagree with him.... who cares??? The Ulama differ and just accept the difference...

No one is saying it is obligatory to be Shadhili or whatever tariqa does hadras. If you don't want to do Hadra there is the naqshabandi tariqa you can follow where Hadra is not part of the spiritual education..... The Naqshabandi is a beautiful tariqa and one who takes that path will reach the highest levels of marifa in sha Allah...

We shouldn't condemn people because they follow different scholars... We have to accept it...

Akhi, I'm not going to argue with you and I don't know why you're bringing any of this up. I have nothing against people who participate in the Hadra, etc. I wouldn't personally do it (because I am Hanafi), and I understand that there are differences of opinion in regards to it, and I have never condemned anyone who does participate in it. I specifically asked about dancing, not hadra.

[mh16388]

There is a story mentioned by Iqbal (RA) to his son. Read that part bro

I am Alhamdulillah! in contact with Aulia Allah. He told me that about Allama Iqbal (AS). I took bayah 2 years back & I am so happy to have him as a Sheikh!

stories do not prove anything. neither was the Allama a scholar so that further weakens the argument.
read the thread mentioned below to know about wilayah.

RA to AS?
we only say AS for Prophets.
again im sorry but your sheikh is not a hujjah for anything. don't keep quoting him.

[XTREME]

stories do not prove anything. neither was the Allama a scholar so that further weakens the argument.
read the thread mentioned below to know about wilayah.

again im sorry but your sheikh is not a hujjah for anything. don't keep quoting him.

Sorry, I am not here to argue anything. It seems like you didn't go through his poetry. I believe that Allama Iqbal (RA) was an Aulia Allah at the stage of Rind.

For my Sheikh, meet him you will get to know everything by yourself.

[mh16388]

Sorry, I am not here to argue anything. It seems like you didn't go through his poetry. I believe that Allama Iqbal (RA) was an Aulia Allah at the stage of Rind.

For my Sheikh, meet him you will get to know everything by yourself.

you can believe whatever you wish. the definition of auliya should not be subjective as people look up to the auwliya. those who aren't at this level of wilayah should not be mentioned lest someone follows them and takes them as an example of how Islam should be followed.

again, the link is posted below which i think contains an actual scholar's work on the subject.

[umar_italy]

Do you know Allama Iqbal (RA) was a Wali and he didn't had a beard.
He was a Rind according to Sufi terminology.

I am Alhamdulillah! in contact with Aulia Allah.

What's your way to know if someone is a waliullah?
Are you sure you're not just confusing writing about Tasawwuf / being a Sufi Shaykh with automatically being a waliullah?..