Pakistani army entered without any inforrmation in Darul ulum Karanchi

[AlGhuraba]

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[AlGhuraba]

already posted that here unfortunately mods removed it, but i see theyre kind to u. Of course this news must have shattered takfiris who had already begun to make excuses for them and were 'questioning' imran's eeman. Remember tht post?

and BTW, the media was lying about TTP threatening to kill imran khan. ihsanullah tipu mehsud (of Asia times online) presented a statement of TTP spokesperson which stated:
"There are news in media that i have threatened to kill imran Khan from TTP if he comes to Wazeeristan, that was quoted by an AP reporter Ishtiaq Mehsud regarding my interview with him, i gave him interview but i hadn't stated in that interview that we are going to kill imran khan , instead i replied to his question that what will be our reaction on Imran khans visit that Shurah of TTP will Decide what to do a week before his Sure arrival and will announce it. Its sure and clear that we don't have any sympathy with Imran Khan neither we need his sympathy, as he himself claim to be liberal and we seek liberals as Infidels, the reporter Added the Death threat himself while bypassing the Norms of Journalism, he tried to break a good News for his Publicity and it shows his immorality. We condemn such behavior by media Personals that they mis present our Stance.
From:
Ihsan-ullah-Ihsan"

source: http://pakistan-mediagroup.blogspot....i-taliban.html

( in sha Allah more on this as i look for more evidence).

[mffhere]

they announced this particular operation on the news beforehand?

And that was not the first time that I've seen such news..

[mh16388]

Dear Mods, is there a reason why I get a warning for talking about banned groups and this guy doesnt?
Anyway lal masjid had Uzbek militants didnt they? Not in hiding, since ISI knew, regardless they had no business there but the army didnt say anything until things got serious n and rest is history. If Musharraf wanted to demolish the masjid what was MMA doing? Maulana fazl ur rehman was in govt too. Musharraf used lalmasjid to clamp down on madrassahs and takfiris used it to go public with their war. Everyones at fault and im not going to close my eyes and blame one party esp since Musharraf isnt even around anymore.

you keep bringing lal masjid. when your claims are refuted you say musharraf isnt here. then you bring lal masjid back into the discussion.
no lal masjid had no foreign militants. it is not their style of fighting nor is their any evidence from trustworthy sources. if you read my article, lal masjid talibaat gave good evidence to refute that.
MMA was in london no? and how is ml.fazl ur rehman related to the mufti rafi camp? what does any of this got to do with situation at hand where we are discussing how TTP are at fault not lal masjid.

you are wrong as musharraf used the 2003 assassination attempts to clamp down on madrassahs not lal masjid and the mujahideen ofcourse were betrayed and had a right to strike back since musharraf and AQ had a truce between 2001 and 2003.

And Dont tell me who i should support and who i shouldnt, there is no ur either with us or against us, because i will definitely never support anyone who fancy making mass takfir and then killing anyone and everyone in the way, and have the audacity to brush off collateral as 'its okay theyre shaheed'.

do you challenge the audacity of previous mufti e azam mufti shafi (rh) too who said in his maqalaat the same thing about killing muslim non-combatants when they are indistinguishable or inseparable from kuffar?
500 muftis signed on the fatwa against pak army. are they all takfiris because you do not have sufficient knowledge of fiqh of J!had? dr. israr, qazi hussain ahmad all agreed with the kufr of pakistan army for betraying mujahideen (on both sides of durand line) and allying with US. yet they didnt sign it.
are dr. israr and qazi hussein ahmad all takfiris?

dont throw that word around.

There are plenty of scholars who call them a fitnah, last years karachi ijtima denounced them, my mamu went and he told me himself.

was that a isi funded difa e pakistan ijtema by any chance? are any of these scholars of the same calibre and prestige as sheikh ul hadith mufti shamzai (rh)?
then again mufti taqi refused to give a fatwa against suicide bombings. mufti rafi very pragmatically did not say ttp's name when speaking about suicide bombing. people not associated with isi are afraid for their lives. those who have spoken are killed.

then again let me ask:
- is there any written fatwa against ttp by name? show it.make sure its not by the isi funded difa people.
- do those people not make takfir of army for allying with kuffar and betraying mujahideen? what is their daleel? please state it.
- what is their ruling on those who side with the kuffar?

answers to these questions should make things clear.

LeJ kill balochis do they not? Quetta is in baloch right? Interestingly Hazaras are also routinely killed by BLA terrorists for supporting Pakistan against an independent Balochistan. I see your callousness towards the hazaras.

why bring LeJ when we are discussuing TTP? and how do you know why hazaras are killed and who kills them?
do you even know why SSp and LeJ separated? why are those hazaras always coming from iran? why does the govt give large compensations to shias but not to sunnis killed by shias? do you know LeJ is a counter to shia terrorism as well? have you seen this?
of course like the SSp i do not believe in killing shia non-combatants. but combatants and spies? absolutely. the entire SSP leadership has been eliminated. does that ring a bell?

If you want evidence about the bugti marri etc sardars 'seeking asylum' in europe, u should check newspapers, not waste other peoples time.

ah newspapers.
tell me are they your only source of information?
do you have secondary or ground sources to verify anything?

does somebody seeking asylum in sweden means swedish govt is backing the BLA? seriously?
how does that justify killing innocent balochis?
obviously the newspapers would side with ISPR. give me a non-secular source that shows that baloch separation movement is funded by outside and a fatwa that states their demands are illegimiate and they should be killed in a heinous fashion by army.

[mh16388]

already posted that here unfortunately mods removed it, but i see theyre kind to u. Of course this news must have shattered takfiris who had already begun to make excuses for them and were 'questioning' imran's eeman. Remember tht post?

i didnt see your post. nobody is questioning anything. the thing to be ascertained is what is the ruling on those who rule by western democracy. khan calls himself a liberal. he should know the connotations attached with the word. there is noq doubt or anything but a simple matter of fiqh. if you want to discuss it bring a ruling about liberals and those who rule by democracy and show their beliefs are valid in islam. if you cannot then you do not have a case as fiqh isn't speculation of laymen.

a good read on the matter would be shamsheer e beniyam and the two books i linked in my first post on this thread. it is my request please read them. and dont throw the word takfiri around. mufti abu hashaam is a mufti from jamia ul islamiah binnori town which is a very respectbale institution. TTP have ulema directly from deoband among them. and also afghan taliban support their fight. i have this on video. so when you call them takfiri you slander many many ulema and senior people and mujahideen from around the Muslim world (including the late mufti shamzai. shaheed in sha Allah)

[AlGhuraba]

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[AlGhuraba]

btw i was talking about the tableeghi ijtima, not a DPC rally. Funny how you just accused so many ullama of being ISI funded including maulana sami ul haq and ahmad ludhianwi sab. And oh yeah i do know why and how SSP split up an LeJ formed and i also know how it has nothing to do with the discussion. And yes about everything i know i know from colleagues who were 'on the ground'. Real people, not the news. Leave the afghans out of it, theyve already said they have nothing to do with anything here, unfortunately takfiris seem to think it means they have nothing to do with Pak army when they meant nothing to do with ANYONE.
You must really be disconnected because the only ones supporting baloch independence ARE secular mediums. Do you want me to name every secular supporting baloch independence along with their indian counterparts? And now you can add your name to that list too! Have a lovely time bashing the army ISI DPC because you actually have more in common with these seculars than you know.

[Maripat]

wrong, im not discussing any group here, im discussing the OP. You turned this into another opportunity thread to glorify takfiri terrorism. I am not going to give you any links fatwa or whatever, you have an internet connection and brains im sure, do it urself. You never refuted any claims. Fairytales dont count. Yes lal
masjid had militants. No the news didnt report this but theyre at Adiyala. Dont blame takfiri terrorism
on mufti shafi. Children are indistinguishable? Lol tsk tsk. You wanna blow up a public place and want to be excused because the public was 'inseperable'? Then lets not complain when the PAF does the same?

You need to learn history, my job is not to educate you. Go learn where did the ibdependence movement started and when. The when should be your answer. Like i said im not going to waste my time posting links and spoon feeding u.
And before you whine about killing innocent balochis like the secular liberals whine, spare some time to the hundreds of punjabi killed. Btw that attack against the bus few days back was claimed by BLA. Like hundreds of others. Someones giving the takfiris a competition.

Those who rule by democracy are MUSLIM. While the system itself is kufr, it doesnt make te ruler kaafir. Thats the ruling, and only khwarij will go against ibn abbas's tafsir and make takfir.

You are a nightmare sister.
And Allah (SWT) inflicted you on us because of our past misdeeds - you have no ability and capability to give us any trouble except when Allah (SWT) gives you leave.
You have been throwing wild accusations left and right. Doggedly.
It is clear that you are pleased with your mission.
Now please be informed that you are responsible for your actions.
Sometimes your actions catch up with you in this world itself but in the hereafter there is no escape from that.
You claim that there were Uzbek terrorists in Lal Masjid and you make snide reference to violence emanating from Mufti Rafi Usmani Sahab (DB)'s Madarsa. Please be informed that it is calumny. When asked for a reference you refuse to provide the links. Your actions are offensive enough to warrant a ban. You are not beneficial as a user. Personally I shall take my criticism from less obnoxious people. You are not endearing.

[umar_italy]

Those who rule by democracy are MUSLIM. While the system itself is kufr, it doesnt make te ruler kaafir. Thats the ruling, and only khwarij will go against ibn abbas's tafsir and make takfir.

It depends whether they rule by other than Islam due to being forced by someone else, or being lazy, or not having courage, etc. (and in such case they are still Muslims but committing a huge sin and are fussaq).

While, if they believe that a rule other than Shari'ah is better than Shari'ah they are KUFFAR. So all those who justify ruling by other than Shari'ah, and describe Shari'ah as "barbaric", "outdated", etc., are KUFFAR.

Your allegation of being "khawarij" without clarifying such an important point is completely out of place and misinformed.

[umar_italy]

It seems you're deeply personally involved in the issue under discussion (pakistani army etc.).
When someone is so personally involved, judgements may easily be clouded by it, and objectivity remains a far-away utopy.

And yes about everything i know i know from colleagues who were 'on the ground'.

It's confirmed then (as I thought to remember from past posts of yours). You have parents/friends in the Army and thus will look for every excuse to justify them.
I see.
Adios to objectivity.