Tasawwuf [ Sufism ]

[celt islam]

Tazkiyyah posted the folowing in another forum. He is pointing out the weaknesses in the Ummah in the US:

5. Sects: We are creating differences today on issues that were decided 1,000 years ago. Shaykh Hamza specifically pointed out the selafi and progressive muslim movements. He also said that we are abusing takfir with one another and being conservative with its use considering that calling the wrong person a kaffir is committing kufr.

asalaamualaykum, when the deen is attacked in such an abusive way one cannot just sit on the fence and do nothing!, we as muslims have a duty to defend islam at all costs even if it means that one my die in the proccess.
As for your attitude towards schuon and nasr who have not only distorted islam and sufism by introducing hindu and psudo native american beliefs , but there attitude towards the deen of ALLAH has been exposed! , there are many scholars from many tariqah's including the alawiyya-darqawi tariqah who have writen books and exposed the self proclimed shaykh schuon as a farce and foney, and exposed his belifs that are contary to islamic teaching!.
The holy messenger sayyiduna muhammad [ saw] told us that devient people will try and distort the deen of al islam for there own means and schuon is one of them, i have given you proof of his kufr and you still deny, as a muslim brother i ask you one thing, look and do your resurch and you will see what these people have done and how they have introduced free-masonic modernist ideas to what they call sufism.
wa alaykumsallam.

[Abu Abdallah]

That's interesting...I have never heard of the scholars you are referring to, or seen any of their books. After the passing of Shaykh Abu Bakr (ra), S.H. Nasr has to be one of the most respected scholars on traditional Islam and Sufism living in the West, in addition to G. Eaton, Abd al-Hakim Murad, Hamza Yusuf, and a few others, even if they disagree on some points of doctrine.

By the way, there was no intellectual Islamic critique of modernity, secularism, and scientism before Rene Guenon (ra) and Frithjof Schuon (ra), who along with Ananda Coomaraswamy and others in the Islamic world such as Maulana Thanvi (ra) educated Muslims and those in the West about the vicisitudes of modernity.

It makes absolutely no sense to make takfir on Muslims for writings about the relative virtues on Hinduism (something Abd al-Karim Jili r.a. wrote about), the Native American traditions, or Western initiatic groups.

You think God only smiles on Muslims. And this is the same attitude we hear from Christians who say you have to accept Jesus (as) to go to Heaven. No I won't buy this brand of religion.

Abu Abdallah

[Abu Abdallah]

When a Muslim takes pride in his heritage and says Celt Islam, Arab Islam, African Islam, American Islam, etc. and looks at the pre-Islamic symbols from that culture that correspond to Islam is that kufr?

Let us look at the Celtic tradition, with no intention to revive what may be left of pre-Christian traditions or Celtic Christianity. One sees floral designs that resemble arabesque patterns in Islamic calligraphy and architecture, and point to the book of nature. Nature itself is sanctified, and its signs point to a transcendent Reality. One also hears stories about the "Green Man." The symbol of the cross is also used. Its vertical and horizontal dimensions relate to the Universal Man (al-insan al-kamil) as a link and bridge between Heaven and earth. The mythological stories, like those in Greek culture, also point to a higher reality, and have transhistorical and cross cultural meanings.

The point is this: I am not writing all of this to revive some pseudo New Age Wiccan tradition, or even Celtic Christianity. Yet the pre-Islamic traditions in Europe and in all cultures have value for the people who live there, and should have relative value for all people who use their intellect. Every nation was sent a prophet. As such we honor those teaching by understanding it through tawhid, and it therefore retains some of its original meaning. This does not mean we should practice anything other than what the Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet (sal) prescribe.

Yet by showing people parallels between their culture and tradition and Islam, they will see the beauty and truth of Islam, as a summation of all the teachings that came before Muhammad (sal). I don't think one can truly understand Islam without some cross-cultural experience, not to mention an appreciation for what came before the last Prophet (sal).

My wife and I are part Native American, and do not appreciate the pejorative comments about the Native American traditions, as if it is wrong for Muslims and Native Americans to interact and come together from time to time. Yes, it is incorrect to mix traditions on the formal level. Yet it is correct to see that Allah are the Great Spirit are the same God, and for the various nations to interact and occasionally share gifts, stories, and prayers.

wa salam,
Abu Abdallah

[tazkiyyah]

Abu Abdullah.
The points that Lings and Nasr discuss are very complex theological points.

I for one, do not understand them. Hence i do not say they are wrong. Most sufis I know shy away from the cosmology of ibn arabi nowadays, and the fact that there are so many discussions like this one on the net show that it shouldnt be discussed amongst the awaam.

Gai Eaton writes in a style much more easily understood for the masses.

I think it would be better not to discuss such intricate complexity amongst non-scholars who have not studied those texts in a tariqa with a shaykh and nowadays people dont even know the basics of kalam/etc never mind delving into
the benefits of wahdat ul wujood /wahdat us shuhood and so many other issues.

[Abu Abdallah]

Assalamu 'Alaykum,

I think you take the right course tazkiyyah. And I am willing to drop this discussion for the time being because of your moderate and thoughtful comments.

Indeed, it is better to remain silent if we don't understand all of the utterances and actions of some Sufi Masters. I certainly don't understand everything Shaykh al-Akbar (ra) has written, and I don't understand everything the perennialists have written either. And if we are in this boat, it is better to allow those who do understand what they have written to interpret such teachings.

I have had the oppurtunity to study directly with one of the shuyukh among them, and feel that I can interpret some of what they have written. Not to mention the fact that my experience with this teacher has proved to me that they hold strong to the rope of Allah: the Quran, Sunnah, the five pillars, iman, and ihsan.

I don't doubt that others associated with perennialism in the Islamic context act outside of tradition and Orthodoxy, one can see some people like this in every tariqah, and even among some Wahabbis who drink alcohol. But this is not the norm for what I have witnessed among certain scholars, and any legit. Sufi Order. In fact, I have seen a stricter interpretation of the Shariah among Muslim perennialists than I have seen in other Sufi Orders, and even among Muslims who are not in a tariqah.

wa salam,
Abu Abdallah

[Azlan Khalili]

Tasawwuf to me is the inner dimension of Islam. My tasawwuf is the tasawwuf of the Great Imam al Ghazali as exemplified in his Ihya Ulum al Din. I follow various tariqahs, and hold to the Shariah.

Azlan Khalili Ash Shadhiliyah