@akabirofdeoband & others, regd. Hamza Yusuf, Harun Yahya & Dajjal & TJS George.

[Abu Zakir]

[U] He joked about a personality [pbuh] in whose sadaqah pluto was created.
Honestly, I don't want to rub it in.
I don't want to create any more animosity, just wanted to show the grave-ness of the matter.

No he joked about creating a ride based on Dante's inferno poem, he did not mention anyone else.

I am quite suspicious by nature especially of people in positions of power in the dunya (you might call me a 'conspiracy theorist') as I see them to be quite manipulative and they use propaganda and a dialectic quite masterfully. And this talk on Dante was very critical of Riba, Banking and Greed...I wonder if the bankers do not want people to hear this discourse and want to discourage people from hearing it. It may well be that this is the case.

[mh16388]

May I ask if someone has specifically asked Shaykh Hamza Yusuf to clarify his remarks on this subject?
Perhaps in that clarification, an apology may have been made. I'm just wondering if he is aware of the consternation his remarks have made.

brother faizol mailed him about something asking for a clarification.

[Saad]

When Mawlana Tahanwi(ra) heard of the death of imam ahmad rida, he defeneded his attack on him saying he should have done it
as he did it out of perceived love for the Prophet(saw)
He didnt know that Mawlana Tahanwi (ra) was not a bay-adab- but possibly was functioning at a conceptual level not available to imam ahmad rida.
Something similar happens here.

Except that this story has no basis as discussed by Dr. 'Allamah Khalid Mahmud in Mutali'ah Barelwiyyat.

Also read what Mawlana Khalil Ahmad Saharanpuri had to say about the distortions of Ahmad Rida Khan regarding Hakim al-Ummah Mawlana Thanwi in Al-Muhannad ‘ala l-Mufannad. Mawlana Thanwi endorsed the Al-Muhannad ‘ala l-Mufannad.

http://www.deoband.org/2010/11/aqida...he-innovators/

[SunniSeeker]

Except that this story has no basis as discussed by Dr. 'Allamah Khalid Mahmud in Mutali'ah Barelwiyyat.

Also read what Mawlana Khalil Ahmad Saharanpuri had to say about the distortions of Ahmad Rida Khan regarding Hakim al-Ummah Mawlana Thanwi in Al-Muhannad ‘ala l-Mufannad. Mawlana Thanwi endorsed the Al-Muhannad ‘ala l-Mufannad.

http://www.deoband.org/2010/11/aqida...he-innovators/

Dr. Mahmuds 'research' is not reliable either I'm afraid. At the very least he is a polemicist so is very biased.

[Starting_anew]

brother faizol mailed him about something asking for a clarification.

Any response?

[mh16388]

Any response?

not that i know of. maybe brother faizol can update us.

i too want clarification of his stance on lahori qadianis.

[Starting_anew]

not that i know of. maybe brother faizol can update us.

i too want clarification of his stance on lahori qadianis.

Have both sections of that community been declared kafir?
The 'Lahori Ahmedis' call the larger group 'Qadianis'
And the 'Ahmedi' group just call themselves that, whilst we call them 'Qadianis', which can make things confusing.
I know the latter believe that their man was the reincarnation of just about everyone.. but the former think he was the mahdi right?
I genuinely don't know, but does believing someone to be Imam Mahdi (ra) put them outside the pale of islam?
The reason i ask that is because Sudan had a similar movement at around the same time which culminated in the battle of Omdurman - the man the Sudanese regarded as the Mahdi is still held in high regard there, though im sure most Sudanese recognise he wasn't now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ahmad
Thoughts?

[faizol]

brother faizol mailed him about something asking for a clarification.

all,

I haven't got a response on that yet, but at the same time the original thread on the issue was deleted. I sent the thread link in the email to make sure the background information was correctly supplied.

A few of our brothers or sisters here have a direct access to Sheikh Hamza Yusuf, maybe one of the brothers or sisters can ask him directly? That would be much more helpful as many questions insya Allah can be asked directly, thus the opportunity to clear any misunderstanding is greater.

Have both sections of that community been declared kafir?
The 'Lahori Ahmedis' call the larger group 'Qadianis'
And the 'Ahmedi' group just call themselves that, whilst we call them 'Qadianis', which can make things confusing.
I know the latter believe that their man was the reincarnation of just about everyone.. but the former think he was the mahdi right?
I genuinely don't know, but does believing someone to be Imam Mahdi (ra) put them outside the pale of islam?
The reason i ask that is because Sudan had a similar movement at around the same time which culminated in the battle of Omdurman - the man the Sudanese regarded as the Mahdi is still held in high regard there, though im sure most Sudanese recognise he wasn't now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ahmad
Thoughts?

One of the brothers from the original thread did mention that taking Mirza Qadiayani as a mujadid is the same as taking Musaylamah as a mujadid, for both of them declared themselves as prophets. That's a very strong point in arguing against Lahori Qadiayanis.

Allahu A'lam.

[mh16388]

Have both sections of that community been declared kafir?
The 'Lahori Ahmedis' call the larger group 'Qadianis'
And the 'Ahmedi' group just call themselves that, whilst we call them 'Qadianis', which can make things confusing.
I know the latter believe that their man was the reincarnation of just about everyone.. but the former think he was the mahdi right?
I genuinely don't know, but does believing someone to be Imam Mahdi (ra) put them outside the pale of islam?
The reason i ask that is because Sudan had a similar movement at around the same time which culminated in the battle of Omdurman - the man the Sudanese regarded as the Mahdi is still held in high regard there, though im sure most Sudanese recognise he wasn't now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ahmad
Thoughts?

brother both are kafir. whatever lahoris say they consider the kafir qadiani to be a 'reformer'.

the gustakh e rasul(SAW) to be a reformer. imagine.

it is their refusal to do takfir of him that makes them kafir among other things.

do you think anybody who today says that musailmah kazzab was not a kafir but misguided, be Muslims?
what about those who says Musailmah was a 'reformer'?

and one should not use the word ahmadis for them.

[iSoK]

The intention of this thread still puzzles me.
Anyway, I think we should end it here