u probs know my cousin nasir then, hes doin the cookin for the peeps in jameah, that are doin ihtikaf.
u probs know my cousin nasir then, hes doin the cookin for the peeps in jameah, that are doin ihtikaf.
I dont think so, I'm a convert who recently moved to Leicester, thus I dont know many people here.Originally Posted by Nafeesa
Allahummaghfirlanaa. You may possibly be correct that I have misunderstood the context of the hadith. So as to avoid such happening again could you please provide an explanation as to the reasons for your saying that the hadith; only relates to already permissable acts (as well as your reason for saying that group dzikr is impermissable); and that it only relates to acts of sadaqa, not to a new act, when the hadith refers to begining a new sunnah.Originally Posted by Nafeesa
MOULANA ABDUL HAY LUKHNOWI'S VIEW ON LOUD ZIKR
Moulana Abdul Hay Saheb Lukhnowi (rahmatullahi alaih) summarises Loud Zikr in the following way:
وروي البيهقي في كتاب شعب الإيمان عن سعد بن مالك مرفوعاً
خير الذكر الخفي و خير الرزق ما يكفى وفي النهاية شرح الهداية المستحب عندنا في الأذكار الخفية الا ما تعلق باعلائه مقصود كالأذان والتلبية انتهى وصّرح كثير من الحنفية منهم صاحب الهداية ان الجهر بالذكر بدعة والأصل فيه الخفاء و الحاصل ان الجهر وان كان جائزاً لكن المفرط منه منهي عنه واسر افضل من الجهر الغير المفرط أيضا كيف والجهر المفرط يستلزم مفاسد منها أيقاظ النيام و منها شغل قلوب المصلين وهو يفضي الي سهر و منها ترك الخشوع عما ينبغي
الي غير ذالك من المفاسد التي لاتحصي و ان شئت زيادة التفصيل في هذا فارجع الي رسالتي سباحة الفكر بالجهر با لذكر انتهي (مجموعه فتاوي جلد2 ص302 طبع لكهنؤ)
(Imaam Baihaqi (rahmatullahi alaih) reports in his Kitaab "Sha`bul Imaan" from Hadhrat Sa`ad Bin Maalik (radhiAllaahu anhu) that Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) said: ‘The best Zikr is that one which is recited softly and quietly and the best sustenance is that one which is sufficient.’ It is reported in the commentary of Hidaya, “An-Nihaya”, that it is Mustahab according to us (Hanafis) that Zikr be soft and quiet, except of course at those times when the Shariah desires it loud, like the Azaan and the Talbiyah of Hajj. Many Ahnaaf, amongst them the author of Hidaya, emphasies the point that to make Zikr in a loud voice is Bid`a. Zikr is actually meant to be soft. In conclusion, although Zikr in a loud voice is permissible, it is forbidden for it to be in excessive loudness. Soft Zikr is even better than a low pitch of loud Zikr. Why should it not be better since loud Zikr has many pitfalls. One of them is that it disturbs the sleeping persons, it also causes a disturbance in the concentration of those performing Salaat and makes them forget what they are reading and thirdly it is opposed to sincerity and concentration. Besides these there are many other evils. If you wish to know more (about this subject) then refer to my Kitaab, "Sabaahatul Fikr Bil Jahr Biz Zikr"”.) [Majmoo` Fataawa vol.2, page 302 – Lukhnowi Print]
It is established from this text of Moulana Abdul Hay Lukhnowi (rahmatullahi alaih) that he is in no way in favour of loud Zikr. The Zikr that is being carried out nowadays through the loudspeakers, if this is not excessive Loud Zikr, then what else can it be? Moulana Saheb has also emphasised that soft Zikr is better than the (permissible form of) Loud Zikr. He has also outlined the numerous harms in excessive Loud Zikr, amongst them is the disturbance it causes to those performing Salaat. No level minded person can refute this fact that the Loud Zikr which is being carried out nowadays through the loudspeakers, not only cause disturbance to the people in the Musjid it self, but also to the surrounding areas and homes and it also disturbs the womenfolk at home who are reading their Salaat.
People must now understand the viewpoint of Hadhrat Moulana Abdul Hay Lukhnowi Saheb (rahmatullahi alaih). He is being quoted out of context and misunderstood. May Allah Ta`ala grant us all the Tawfeeq and understanding to accept and follow the Haqq. Aameen
The views of Ibn Banna as-Saraqustiy , from his al-Mabahitha'l-`Asliyya (The Basic Research) are as follows:
183 (Section 3, Ruling 6: Concerning the Chanting and Singing Gatherings of the People of the Path) Normal people talk
much useless talk about the chanting and reciting of metered verses and remembrances out loud and in a group in unison
by the people of the Path. | But, this faction considers this practice a garden (among the gardens of Paradise).
184 The scholars from `Iraq have declared it unlawful. | The scholars from Makkah and Madinah have decided to remain
silent about it.
185 But, the scholars of the Path also have a view | since they have made the unison chanting gatherings a cornerstone of
186 It is considered mubah for people who do not have attachment to the material world. | And its being mandub for the
teachers of the Path is clear.
187 And it is considered to be unlawful for the common man (attached to his desires) | (and all these rulings are)
according to the noble and renown teachers of the Path.
188 In these unison chanting gathering, one's internal state is expedited and made to show up rapidly | and this state can
either be low or high.
189 The chanting gathering is a path which has limits according to the teachers | and both the one who will obtain divine
spiritual fruits and the one who will not obtain them crosses this path.
190 So, one person who crosses rises to the Place of Delight | and another person who crosses drops down to the Record
of the Wretched.
191 And in these gathering, the disciple receives a temporary spiritual high and happiness and then it goes away after an
hour. | But, yes, poison if taken even for one hour can kill.
192 Whether one rises via the chanting gatherings or one falls is an analogy based upon the nature of one's soul. And the
chanting gatherings inscribe marks on the heart | since the state descends on the disciple while in the gathering and then
goes back up (leaving him with only marks in his heart).
193 Its traces remain in the chambers of the heart | like the traces of heavy rain on a strong but flexible branch.
194 And during these unison chanting gatherings, one may not talk | nor fool around, and nor laugh out loud (starting
from a smile).
195 And the young and inexperienced are barred from entry into the chanting gatherings. | But if they are present, they
must remain behind the older men (who will have formed a closed circle while standing).
196 And dancing in this gathering without being overcome with a spiritual state | is not from the Path of the accomplished
197 And if the person stays calm and still | it is better and less likely to cause misunderstandings.
198 But, no one needs to engage in these chanting gatherings | except he who is weak of state and has an undeveloped soul
(over which he does not have control).
And I say, "one will only show enmity to that of which he is ignorant". So rather than oppose all the practices of the Muslims that developed outside of the sub-continent, hold your tounge and seek knowledge, rather than rush headlong into the condemnation of the Muslims.
Ibn `Umar (radhiya'Llahu `anhuma) said: "Their is one type of knowledge that I would not exchange for all the gold in the world". When asked what this knowledge was, he replied, "The knowledge of the differences of opinion among the companions".
Last edited by laughinglion; 25-10-2005 at 06:59 AM.
Answered by Sheikh Sâlim al-QarnîOriginally Posted by laughinglion
There is nothing in our religion that is known as a “good innovation” because the word innovation (bid`ah) in Islamic discourse means to introduce into the religion something that is alien to it. On the other hand, there is such a thing as a “good Sunnah” as mentioned in a hadîth that can be found in Sahîh Muslim.
Some desert Arabs clad in woolen clothes came to the Prophet (peace be upon him). He saw them in a sad plight as they had been in dire need. He exhorted the people to give charity, but they showed some reluctance until (signs) of anger could be seen on his face. Then a person from the Ansâr came with a purse full of silver. Then another person came forth and then others followed suit until signs of happiness could be seen on his face.
Thereupon the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Whoever starts in Islam a good practice (sunnah hasanah) and is emulated by others in doing so will get the reward of it and the reward of all those who act upon it without their rewards being diminished in any respect. And whosoever starts in Islam an evil practice (sunnah sayyi’ah) and is emulated by others will bear the sin of it and the sin of all those who act on it without their burden being diminished in the least. [Sahîh Muslim: (1017)]
This is talking about the person who takes the initiative to do something that complies with Islamic teachings. Whoever does this will be engaging in a good Sunnah.
This is not referring to any sort of innovation. An innovation can never be good, because it is, by definition, something that contradicts with the religion. An innovation is something that neither the Prophet (peace be upon him) did nor the people who followed him.
Therefore, innovations would include observing the celebration of the Prophet’s birthday or engaging in special observances on the occasion of his night journey and ascension (al-isrâ’ wa al-mi`râj).
May Allah guide us all.
Answered by: Sheikh `Abd al-Rahmân al-`Ajlân
Professor at the Mecca Grand Mosque
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Whoever starts in Islam a good practice (sunnah hasanah) and is emulated by others in doing so will get the reward of it and the reward of all those who act upon it without their rewards being diminished in any respect. And whosoever starts in Islam an evil practice (sunnah sayyi’ah) and is emulated by others will bear the sin of it and the sin of all those who act on it without their burden being diminished in the least. [Sahîh Muslim: (1017)]
A Muslim is obligated to preserve and uphold the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and to eschew innovations.
The meaning of “good Sunnah” in this hadîth – and Allah knows best – is to renew a Sunnah of our Prophet (peace be upon him) that has disappeared, been forgotten, or has become neglected.
It does not mean to initiate a new practice that has no basis in Islamic teachings. That would be an innovation.
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Whoever innovates something in this matter of ours that is not part of it, then it will be rejected.” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim]
And Allah knows best.
After every 4 rakat of Taraweeh the practice at my Masjid is that we all recite a collective loud group dhikr of Surat al-Ikhlas 3 times.
Originally Posted by Omar HH
This definitely has no basis. Even those who claim "Good Innovation" will not be able to substantiate this act.
Originally Posted by mospike
Are we not encouraged to recite suratu'l-Ikhlas? Where are the prohibitions stating one cannot recite this in a group? Or that there is know benefit in this practice?
We recite "al hamdu'li-Llah'l-ladzee hadanaa li-haadzaa wa maa kunna li-nahtadiya law laa an hadaaha'Llah. Allahumma laka'l-Hamd, Allahumma laka'l-Hamd, Allahumma laka'l-Hamd," three times, its powerfull.
Last edited by laughinglion; 25-10-2005 at 07:21 AM.
Originally Posted by laughinglion
How can the recitation of the Quraan ever be a Bidat. Please do not be irrational. Besides i did not say that it is Bidat. I said that the said practice has no BASIS.