Big errors in Tabari (creation story hadith)

[Karim_sunni]

i've came across the following stories in tabari:

The History of al-Tabari, Volume 1- General Introduction and from the Creation to the Flood (trans. Franz Rosenthal, State University of New York Press, Albany 1989), pp. 187-193:


"We have stated before that time is but hours of night and day and that the hours are but traversal by the sun and the moon of the degrees of the sphere. Now then, this being so, there is (also) a sound tradition from the Messenger of God told us by Hannad b. al-Sari, who also said that he read all of the hadith (to Abu Bakr)- Abu Bakr b. `Ayyash- Abu Sa'd al-Baqqal- `Ikrimah- Ibn Abbas: The Jews came to the Prophet and asked him about the creation of the heavens and the earth. He said: God created the earth on Sunday and Monday. He created the mountains and the uses they possess on Tuesday. On Wednesday, He created trees, water, cities and the cultivated barren land. These are four (days). He continued (citing the Qur'an): `Say: Do you really not believe in the One Who created the earth in two days, and set up others like Him? That is the Lord of the worlds. He made it firmly anchored (mountains) above it and blessed it and decreed that it contain the amount of food it provides, (all) in four days, equally for those asking'- for those who ask. On Thursday, He created heaven. On Friday, He created the stars, the sun, the moon, and the angels, until three hours remained. In the first of these three hours He created the terms (of human life), who would live and who would die. In the second, He cast harm upon everything that is useful for mankind. And in the third, (He created) Adam and had him dwell in Paradise. He commanded Iblis to prostrate himself before Adam, and He drove Adam out of Paradise at the end of the hour. When the Jews asked: What then, Muhammad? He said: `Then He sat straight upon the Throne.' The Jews said: You are right, if you had finished, they said, with: Then He rested. Whereupon the Prophet got very angry, and it was revealed: `We have created the heavens and the earth and what is between them in six days, and fatigue did not touch Us. Thus be patient with what you say.'"



"According to al-Muthanna- al-Hajjaj- Hammad- `Ata' b. al-Sa'ib- `Ikrimah: The Jews asked the Prophet: What about Sunday? The Messenger of God replied: On it, God created the earth and spread it out. They asked about Monday, and he replied: On it, He created Adam. They asked about Tuesday, and he replied: On it, He created the mountains, water, and so on. They asked about Wednesday, and he replied: Food. They asked about Thursday, and he replied: He created the heavens. They asked about Friday, and he replied: God created night and day. Then, when they asked about Saturday and mentioned God's rest(ing on it), he exclaimed: God be praised! God then revealed: `We have created the heavens and the earth and what is between them in six days, and fatigue did not touch Us.'"

I wonder what scholars say about these stories in Tabari, since the stories in tabari tell that the 'eard was spread out before the creations of the heavens'

however the quran says:

79:27-30 "Are you the harder to create or the heaven? He made it. He raised high its height, then put it into a right good state. And he made dark its night and brought out its light. And the earth, he expanded it after that." -Translation M.H. SHAKIR

79:31-33 He brought forth from it its water and its pasturage,And the mountains, He made them firm, A provision for you and for your cattle.
- Translation M.H. SHAKIR



Further these stories speak about creation in 6 days of 24 hours periods, which conflict with science, further the two stories above in tabari contradict each other regarding what happened on which day etc.

How can tabari quote such stories, i dont understand, i hope some-one can give me scholars statement's about these story of creation in tabari, i guess they have to be forged.

wa salaam

[Abu Hurayrah]

Bismillahi Rahmani Rahman

Assalamu Alaikum Brother Karim

Tafsir al-tabari and tarikh al-tabari(history compiled by tabari) are just a bunch of reports that Imam Tabari has complied. He says in the beggening of the books(either both or one of them) that he has just merely compiled all the reports that have cone to him, and that he will leave it up to future scholars to decide which ones are authentic.

from ask-imam.com;

"He would also have known that Tabari himself, in a disclaimer at the end of his introduction (vol. 1 p. 24) declares that in terms of authenticity the material in his book is only as good as the chains of narration through which it has come down to him. "

Also, some where lese it mentions the same. Laymen like us looking through tabari is the worst thing in the world. Tabari is not for people like us. The orientalists translated the entire tarikh tabari, and now, any non muslims goes and looks in it and thinks that it is authentic. Imam tabari just collected everything that came to him and he said that he will leave it up to future muhaditheen to look for the authnticity of the reports.

Ma salam

[Curious Observer]

This is going to sound pathetic, but my I was told that the world was created in a second. Allah just said "let it be" (or something close to that) and it became.

The above hadith illustrates a timescale!

So..how long did it take for the world to be created?

[sudoku]

hmm...i will ask to see what is the opinion of the Ulama here....

[ahsanirfan]

The question here is how long is the "day." For Allah a day can be 40,000 years worth of our time, or 10,000 or 50,000. So when Allah says "6 days" what does He mean? Only Allah knows.....

[Muawiyah]

brother Ahsan is referring to the ayaat of the Quran which speak of the world being created in six days (surah Yunus ayah 3, surah Hood ayah 7, surat ul furqan ayah 59, surat us sajdah ayah 4, surah Qaf ayah 38, surat ul Hadeed ayah 4)
So, Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala did not create the world in an instant, even though when He Subhanahu wa Ta'ala can do this (surat ul Baqarah ayah 117, Surah Aal `Imran 4, Surah Aal `Imran 59, Surat ul An`aam 73, Surat un Nahl 40, surah Maryam 35, surah Ghafir 68)
have fun looking this stuff up

[theory]

Yeah there are lots of stuff in Tabiri like that. Have there been any studies of the sanads, like seeing which stories are fabricated, weak, good etc. Cause that would solve alot of confusion.

[Karim_sunni]

The quran is clear!


the stories in tabari mess things up in my view,
because they talk about week days (24 hours period) and different contradicting chronical orders, the quran not

these stories in tabari are really confusing

it's important to know the isnad /authenticity of those stories about the creation in tabari.

[Karim_sunni]

Yeah there are lots of stuff in Tabiri like that. Have there been any studies of the sanads, like seeing which stories are fabricated, weak, good etc. Cause that would solve alot of confusion

This is exactly what i am looking for !

As muslims it is our duty to know which storie is fabricated and which not, this will clarify a lot about tabari.

[Mossy]

A lot of the stories are sanad-less.