Salafi book 'the creed of the imams'

[Karim_sunni]

salaam brothes and sisters, i have a good conversation with a brother whose confused about salafi and sunni, he wants to know which group is more correct, we had discussions about intercession etc (tassawuf), i'd convinced him there's nothing wrong with tassawuf, but then a salafi gave him this book 'the creed of the imams' , and off course the akhi became confused by this book, he asked me about this:

SECTION THREE: THE CREED OF IMAAM ABOO HANEEFAH (D.150H)

[A]: THE STATEMENT OF IMAAM ABOO HANEEFAH IN REGARDS TO TAWHEED:


Firstly, his belief concerning the Tawheed of Allaah and an explanation of the Sharee'ah legislated Tawassul, and a complete destruction of the Innovated T awassul:

1. Imaam Aboo Haneefah said, [b]"It is not befitting for anyone to call upon Him, except by Him, 35 /b] and with the supplication that He has permitted and ordered, that which is instructed in His statement:

"And Allaah has Beautiful Names, so call upon Him by them, and leave the company of those who deviate concerning His Names. They will be recompensed for what they used to do."
[Sooratul-A'raaf 7:180]”36

2. Aboo Haneefah said, ‘It is detested for the supplicator to say,, `I ask You by the right of so and so,' or,`By the right of Your Prophets and Messengers, and by the right of the Sacred House and the Sacred
Sanctuary."37


3. And Aboo Haneefah said, `It is not befitting for anyone to call upon Allaah, except by Him, and it is even more detestable for him to say: By the junctures of Honour from your Throne 38, or `By the Right of Your
Creation.”39

their sources:

35 The Prophet (saw) said, "Whoever swears by other than Allaah, then he has indeed disbelieved and committed Shirk." Related by Aboo Daawood (3/570), at Tirmidhee (3/253), who said: "A Hasan Hadeeth." It was authenticated by Imaam ash-Shawkaanee in NayluLAwtaar (8/257) and by al -Albaanee in Irwaa'ul-Ghaleel (no. 2561). And he (saw) said about the statement: 'What Allaah wills and what you will.' "Do you make me one to be called upon along with Allaah? Say: What Allaah alone wills." Related by
al-Bukhaaree in al-Adabul-Mufrad (no. 783), and by Ahmad (1/214), and an-Nisaa'ee in al,'Amalul -Yawm wa l-laylah (no. 995),
and Ibn Maajah (no. 2117). It was authenticated by al-Arna'oot in Takhreejul -Musnad Abee Bakr (p. 55), and by al-Albaanee in
as-Saheehah (no. 139).


36 ad-Durrul-Mukhtaar ma'a Haashiyah Raddul-Muhtaar (6/396- 397).

37 Sharhul-'Aqeedatut-Tahaawiyyah (p.234) and Ithaafus-Saadaatul Mustaqeem (2/285) and Sharhul Fiqhil-Akbar (p. 198) of
al-Qaaree.


38 It was hated by Imaam Aboo Haneefah and Muhammad Ibnul-Hasan that a man say in his supplication, "O Allaah, verily I ask
you by a juncture of Honour from Your Throne,' despite the absence of a text to permit it. As for Aboo Yoosuf, then indeed he
permitted it due to a text from the Sunnah, wherein it was reported that the Prophet (saw) said in his supplication, 'O Allaah, verily
I ask you by the junctures of Honour from Your Throne, and by the utmost degree of mercy from your Book.' And this hadeeth is
related by al-Bayhaqee (9/382) in the `Book of Supplications,' and Nasbur -Raayah (4/2.82). Three reproachable affairs are found
in the isnaad: [i] Daawood Ibn Abee 'Aasim did not hear from Ibn Mas'ood; [ii] 'Abdul-Malik Ibn Jareeh is a mudallis and he
possesses irsaal; [iii] 'Umar lbn Haarood was accused of lying. Due to that, Ibnul-Jawzee, as is found in al-Binaayah (9/382), said,
"This hadeeth is fabricated without a doubt, and its isnaad is futile." Refer to Tahdheebut -Tahdheeb (3/189), (6/405), and (7/501).


39 al-Fiqhu-Absat (p. 56)

their book is:

http://www.selefiepublikaties.com/Ar...d_4_imaams.pdf

I really wonder if these quotes from abu hanifa are true, or are cited out of context, or based on wrong translation. i hope someone can help me to help this brother

[Yahya Ibn Sal]

I think the question is, not whether or not tawasul is correct, Rather the statement(The right of so and so) because No one has rights over Allah. So when seeking permission through someone, you might say "I love Muhammed alayi salam, and he Is your prophet, and through my love for him please forgive me Allah" This is not the same as saying by the right of the earth you created, or the right of the kaba, because to allah belongs the rights of all things.
As for sunni and salafi, then to me they are the same(not the practicers but the practice) Because the salafs, were sunnis. They the salafs had the belief of Muhammed alayi salam, followed his manhaj, and did everything according to him. The word salaf means pious predesseors, and it is refering to the first 3 generations of muslims.

[faqir]

Not specific to you but most of this stuff that keeps coming up over and over on this forum has been covered in the In depth sections....

re. what you quoted, check:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8203

[Karim_sunni]

but what about this akhi

Aboo Haneefah said, ‘It is detested for the supplicator to say,, `I ask You by the right of so and so,' or,`By the right of Your Prophets and Messengers, and by the right of the Sacred House and the Sacred
Sanctuary."37

compare with:

THE HADITH OF THE BLIND MAN

Tirmidhi relates, through his chain of narrators from 'Uthman ibn Hunayf, that a blind man came to the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and said, "I've been afflicted in my eyesight, so please pray to Allah for me." The Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said: "Go make ablution (wudu), perform two rak'as of prayer, and then say:


"Oh Allah, I ask You and turn to You through my Prophet Muhammad,
the Prophet of mercy; O Muhammad (Ya Muhammad), I seek your intercession with my Lord for the return of my eyesight [and in another version: "for my need, that it may be fulfilled. O Allah, grant him intercession for me"]." The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) added, "And if there is some need, do the same."

i doubt if the salafis are honest with quoting abu hanifa

[Yahya Ibn Sal]

I think these are two different statements...
One is stating by the right of so and so..
and one is stating seek your intercession with my lord, and O Allah i ask you through so and so.

These are different words even in english, so let alone the meaning in arabic.

As for the rights- Then we can say that all matters, all actions, all things are under Allah's control, He created us to worship him, He owes no one, and we owe him all things. We have to give him his rights, he doesnt have to give us ours. Thus making Allah free from having the need for someone to have rights over him.

However the word through means on account of, by the means of, by the way of, because of. Thus Allah gives the ability to intercede to whom he wills, and we now ask Allah to except our dua through Muhammed-alayi salam, And it is Allah who grants that intercession or not.

I dont think the previous post clearly shows that the 'salafi' oppose tawasul, rather they hold a different position concerning the wording used when doing it.

[Danish Al hyderabaadee]

but what about this akhi




compare with:




i doubt if the salafis are honest with quoting abu hanifa

The first statement, ive read that in other books as well, that Imam Aboo Haneefa detested it greatly, even when soemone said I ask you Allah by your throne..." ot somethign to that degree. And same with both f his companions ABu Yousuf and Ash Shaybaanee.

I dont find anything contrdictory, because the secodn hadith the blind man was specifically instructed to do that because he was asking by the intercession of Muhammad(SAW) because the Prophet (SAW) had been asked by him to make dua for him. AllahU Alim

I dotn know how one can draw form the hadith of the blind man to say or make tawasssul by asking by the right of so and so. And theres 3-4 other types of tawassul taht are even more firmly grounde dint he Qurna adn Sunnah tha tis
1. TAwassul through one's deeds
2. Tawassul through ones condition
3. Tawassul through Allah Names and Attributes
4. Tawassul through the dua of a righteous person

Here is a good book on the matter if one wants to read about these
http://www.calgaryislam.com/imembers...artid-104.html

[Karim_sunni]

the hadith about the blind man is quite clear, if it was forbidden to ask for intercession by the name of Muhammed (saw) then the prophet (saw) wouldn't instruct the blind to do that, further there are more hadith then only this one, i will quote inscha'allah later

secondly the link you post from al-albani, he's vies about tassawuf have already been refuted at

http://sunnah.org/publication/encycl...l/tawassul.htm

furhter salafi say 'follow quran, sunnah and salaf' , well if one of the salaf aksed muhammed (saw) by intercession by using his name, then it is ok ,
allah swt knowst best

[Karim_sunni]

akhi Fagit,

djazakallah brom for the link, it clears everything about hanifa, djazakallah